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Author Topic: Lamentations of the Flame Princess  (Read 19486 times)

DKChannelBoredom

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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 04:02:29 AM »
I like the style and vibe ok, Europe 'round the 30 Year War seems like a good fit - and some of the rule tweaks are neat (encumbrance/skills), but yeah, as a whole, rule-wise, I agree..

And damn. A Grindhouse Edition box costs 175$ at Nobleknight... today I would probably sell mine for half that.
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Edgewise

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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 10:20:14 AM »
Quote from: jux;994212
I am a fan of an idea of strip-down minimalistic systems - but yet there is the Specialist class with it's very narrow focused skills. Totally out of place imho. Architecture? Seriously?


I've never seen a simpler skill system than Lamentations'.  The skills are not narrowly-focused at all...architecture is just poorly-named.  It's more of a general skill for analyzing any kind of structural element - like how dwarves can detect sloping passages.  And it's probably the least useful skill.

If you think Specialist skills are narrow, what about Bushcraft?  That's like Ranger: The Skill.  And who needs hide in shadows and move silently when you have one stealth skill?
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JimLotFP

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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 11:39:14 AM »
Quote from: jux;994212
there should be some kind of sanity, corruption system - but there is none.

I hate that sort of thing. Won't happen.

JimLotFP

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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 11:40:10 AM »
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;994218
Bah. James should just admit that he is more interested in/making more money from scenarios and settings than his own system and admit the book is never going to happen - embarrasing as it is.

It is happening. It's just real fucking slow.

The Exploited.

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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 12:04:09 PM »
Quote from: jux;994212
If it wants to be dark fantasy game - there should be some kind of sanity, corruption system - but there is none.

I do love some kind of corruption system myself... It works so well for Symbaroum (those wizards gotta be damn careful). I'd definitely include it in my own house rules for an OSR game/system. I think it would be cool as an optional extra for LoTFP too, especially if you were playing an extended campaign and not hopping from one scenario to another.

I like the inclusion of gunpowder weapons.... Gives it that WFRP vibe.
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christopherkubasik

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« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 02:34:31 PM »
Quote from: Voros;994519
Sorry not convinced. Most of the spells are boilerplate B/X or 1e spells. There are almost less than half a dozen unique spells of any significance.

I do like the book format and art though. Or the art that isn't trying too hard to be 'shocking' I should say.

Oh, sure. But some of the boilerplate spells have interesting bits of description. Keep in mind I'm not trying to convince you of anything (I really, really want you to play what you want and not purchase anything extraneous).

Keep in mind as well that I hadn't owned any D&D books for decades. I shopped around looking at the clones a few years back, really liked a couple of the LotFP adventures, and picked up the LotFP core book because it was solid and had what I needed.

Thus, LotFP as a rules set wasn't extraneous or redundant in any way for me. I needed a rules set. I purchased it. It delivered.

This will probably be a very different experience than many of the other people here.

Voros

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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2017, 05:54:37 PM »
If I was going to buy any retroclone in hardcopy my first choice would be Beyond the Wall because it is the single best OSR system out there that really does something different, then LotFP because the book is so damn purty.

Dumarest

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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2017, 05:57:41 PM »
Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;994622
I really, really want you to play what you want and not purchase anything extraneous.

Sir, you are an embarrassment to this hobby. Please turn in your credentials and find your way to the door.

Dumarest

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« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2017, 06:01:57 PM »
Quote from: Voros;994683
If I was going to buy any retroclone in hardcopy my first choice would be Beyond the Wall because it is the single best OSR system out there that really does something different, then LotFP because the book is so damn purty.

I got a hold of copies of Swords & Wizardry (is that the name?) and OSRIC a few years back to see what it was. I didn't know at the time that these games are just D&D rewrites with maybe a couple of minor alterations. I have nothing against it, but I don't really see why I'd buy a game that seems to be D&D plus house rules when I know how to make my own house rules already. They kind of seem like "D&D plus this article from Dragon added on" or something. I've only seen a couple of the "clones," though: are there any that actually do anything different or special enough to consider them their own thing rather than just "D&D Knockoff Mint-n-Chip Flavor" and "D&D Knockoff Strawberry Flavor"?

Voros

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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2017, 06:29:24 PM »
The best in my opinion are Beyond the Wall, which accurately captures the flavour, setting and mechanics of authors like Le Guin, The Black Cauldron, Robin McKinely and John Bellairs. It is also the best example I've seen of how to have a truly low magic setting that still feels mythic and fairy tale-like. It has excellent suggestions for how to present the underworld, goblins and fae, etc.

The other, only available in hardcopy from Lulu, is The White Hack which is such a radical rewrite of D&D I think it can be considered its own system, although with a D&D chassis. I think it is very well done, with  much more flexible approach to class than D&D for instance, although I suspect it would be too Scandinavian for many, especially with its nearly freeform magic system.

The Black Hack is pretty much just a system, but stripped down and different enough from core D&D to lift it out of being a retroclone I think. Lots of cool little ideas one could take and use without using the whole system, although my limited experience with it found it plays very well at the table. The best of the D&D plus house rules systems I think.

In many ways these are all different enough from D&D that I wouldn't really call them retroclones as they are all about taking D&D and doing something different with it, not recreating some imagined play style from the past.

christopherkubasik

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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2017, 09:25:23 PM »
Quote from: Voros;994683
If I was going to buy any retroclone in hardcopy my first choice would be Beyond the Wall...

Good!

As for the recommendations Voros suggests of Beyond the Wall, Whitehack, and The Black Hack, I think they're all solid. I'm looking forward to running something with Whitehack some day. (So much so that I bought several copies of both the Notebook edition and the basic rules. I am looking forward to using them with Yoon-Suin, for example, and other settings where culture and setting detail really get to stand out.)

As for the notion my players and I are "recreating some imagined play style from the past" when we use the LotFP rules... I have no idea how to respond to that. We are actually playing a game with the actual rules found in the book that generates a specific kind of play style that we're all enjoying it. If we are all actually imagining we're playing the game we're in deep trouble!

Voros

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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 01:32:17 AM »
That wasn't intended a criticism of LotFP, my favourite edition of D&D is B/X and BECMI, which are clearly the main influences on LotFP, so of course I don't look down on it.

But I do find a lot of the claims about what 'old school play' was supposedly like doesn't reflect my actual experiences of playing pre-2e D&D.

Simlasa

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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 09:37:16 AM »
Quote from: Voros;994774
But I do find a lot of the claims about what 'old school play' was supposedly like doesn't reflect my actual experiences of playing pre-2e D&D.
Same here, which is why I was attracted to the OSR, because it sounded to me like a lot more fun than what we'd done with AD&D.

christopherkubasik

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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2017, 10:17:12 AM »
Quote from: Simlasa;994857
Same here, which is why I was attracted to the OSR, because it sounded to me like a lot more fun than what we'd done with AD&D.

Me, too. Or, rather, we had a lot of fun with AD&D. But OSR was taking ideas and giving me advice on how to make that fun on purpose. (Remember, back in the day you were given a set of kind of strange rules and told, "Good luck!")

So now I play and have more fun than we had when I played AD&D.

Somehow this will be seen as an attack on those who are not down with OSR. Or somehow read to be seen as saying the only way to play and RPG is with the OD&D rules and the ghost of Gary Gygax at the table next to the GM.

I hope to the high heavens anyone with a smidgen of common sense who is beginning to think that's what I'm saying will take a breath, re-read what I just wrote, and relax a bit.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 10:22:38 AM by ChristopherKubasik »

Voros

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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2017, 11:20:47 PM »
Don't think anyone thought that. No worries.