LA on new Ogre Mage?

Vermicious Knid · July 23, 2006, 01:52:00 PM

So...Mearls redesigned the Ogre Mage. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060721a

What should the LA of the new OM be? I'm thinking +3 or +4...the new version ain't as bad as a troll for sure. Half-fiend Ogre would be LA +6 and be all-around superior. Half-dragon Ogre would be LA+5 and much scarier. Is LA +3 too low?

Thjalfi · July 23, 2006, 01:57:14 PM

I think +3 is about right, honestly.

Vermicious Knid · July 23, 2006, 02:03:22 PM

It would be a beautiful thing to be able to put the Ogre Mage mini to work as a PC.

Old version was unplayable. New version at LA+3...that is worth a try.

Janos · July 30, 2006, 06:01:32 PM

I like the look and feel of the new ogre mage a lot. Mearls does a great job of keeping the concepts, but making them interesting.

I'd probably suggest LA +4, comparing it to the half-dragon's abilities it's clearly superior, and Half-Dragon is usually one of the strongest of the +3 templates.

I think that makes it a low end LA+4, but it was beyond what I would want in a +3 LA when you consider the sneak attack, always flying, stat boosts, and spells/qualities.

ergeheilalt · August 01, 2006, 10:27:58 AM

Quote from: JanosI like the look and feel of the new ogre mage a lot. Mearls does a great job of keeping the concepts, but making them interesting.

I'd probably suggest LA +4, comparing it to the half-dragon's abilities it's clearly superior, and Half-Dragon is usually one of the strongest of the +3 templates.

I think that makes it a low end LA+4, but it was beyond what I would want in a +3 LA when you consider the sneak attack, always flying, stat boosts, and spells/qualities.

Doesn't having 3 racial hit dice knock it down a bit?

Janos · August 01, 2006, 11:03:04 AM

Quote from: ergeheilaltDoesn't having 3 racial hit dice knock it down a bit?

Not really. Racial hit dice do suck, but they're not really a balancing factor. And 3 of them isn't too bad either, you haven't lost out significantly with just 3.

Vermicious Knid · August 06, 2006, 06:16:35 PM

Quote from: JanosNot really. Racial hit dice do suck, but they're not really a balancing factor. And 3 of them isn't too bad either, you haven't lost out significantly with just 3.

Ummm...it has 6 racial hit dice. Giant hit dice, which are close to tops in the "useless and shitty" sweepstakes.

I'm pretty convinced LA+4 is too steep after some thought.

Radu the Wanderer · August 08, 2006, 04:37:50 AM

Given that I'd almost always play a 9th level anything over a new ogre mage any day of the week hands down I'd say keep it at +3. I'd absolutely play a 10th level character, no questions asked and no second thoughts. +4 seems too steep.

I'd only seriously consider playing one of the new ogre mages if the game was going to start at level 12+. (as a rule of thumb, I don't consider LA's to be playable if they are greater than 1/3 your ECL. Thus, tieflings and aasimar are only useful in games that start at level 3 or higher, drow in level 6 or higher, and svirfneblin in level 9 or higher. Ogre Magi are damn cool in concept--- one of my favorite monsters, actually--- but the application of 6 giant HD and a +3 LA bumps it out of the "playable" range for me.)

I like the deconstruction/reconstruction, and may give it a bit of tweaking myself, but I like the newfound niche the ogre magi has after redevelopment... just dangerous enough to be an early threat, interesting enough to beef up for late game threats. DEFINATELY a keeper.