I ran a game for two players on Friday. We were supposed to have four, but two couldn't make it.

They created a two blade ranger and a druid. So that's a striker who has to get in close and a controller, who'll attack multiple foes from a distance.

They're 1st level. That matters. Their resources, particularly healing, will be limited.

Before selecting anything, I looked over their character sheets, noting their Hit Points, their average attack bonus, and the range of their defenses.

We created the game world, then I selected some foes that they might fight. (I was hoping there wouldn't be much fighting at all. I wanted some as this was the second time one of them had played 4e, but I knew a session full would kick their ass.)

I re-skinned two Fire Elementals, level 1 artillery, as "fire snakes" and selected a level 4 controller wizard type as the main bad guy of the fight.

I wanted multiple opponents so the druid could be more effective. I wanted some low level people that would fight close up, but not too many to overwhelm the ranger. I wanted someone standing in the back so at least part of the combat didn't involve melee.

I looked at the PC's numbers and juxtaposed them with the monsters' so that I didn't have monsters that would hit on a 5, for example, or that could take someone down with just a couple of hits.

We had two fights against these opponents. The first ended prematurely - as soon as the wizard appeared, using ritual to appear where her minions were searching, the PCs spoke with her and Bluffed her into thinking the object of her search was miles away. When she came back, we had a complete fight.

It went okay. At one point, I "fudged." I roll out in the open, so I can't fudge rolls. The druid had fallen and just had a Surge worth of HP on waking, with no way to gain more. The minion "fire snakes" were gone, but the wizard had almost all her HP. So I decided that the ritual she was using didn't allow her to change the locus of her magic - her "sending" was stuck in one square. Since she was using ranged spells, the ranger was able to get a couple of opportunity attacks on her. That helped even things out.

Interestingly enough, we played on Saturday in a group where only three of us showed up. I played a Gnome Bard, a leader, and we had a striker and a controller. We had two big fights (we're 15th level).

The first went well.

The second, which was sort of an impromptu fight, went poorly. The DM threw it together based on some decisions we made. The monsters - there were four: two big smashers, one controller type, and one I'm not too sure about - were overpowered for us.

It didn't help that I went down in the first round, without acting. As I was the healer of the group, that really hurt. I don't think the other players had potions. I wasn't able to use mine.

It would have been a TPK if we hadn't used some roleplaying/story elements.

Seanchai

Yeouch. Unless the encounter is WAY overpowered, I can't think of any reason in any edition of D&D (except save vs. death) where one shot should put a character down.

Quote from: Werekoala;388797Yeouch. Unless the encounter is WAY overpowered, I can't think of any reason in any edition of D&D (except save vs. death) where one shot should put a character down.

Well, that's kinda how it works in most editions of D&D. Even in 3.5- a standard orc with a greataxe that scores a critical hit is likely to kill anything 1st level he hits.

One monster in 3.5 that used to kill a lot of PCs in my campaigns was the Redcap- it had a surprise attack, and it was armed with a scythe and had a pretty bad-ass hit. The 3.5 crit system did xN damage on a crit, and with a scythe that was x4. Often enough, this was enough to take even a higher level PC down past -10 in one hit.

Well, maybe at 1st - this was his 15th level character, apparently.

I can see it happening at level 15, assuming poor initiative rolls on the player's part and good ones on the part of the monsters. It wouldn't be one shot, but four shots? Sure. And Seanchai said first round, not one shot. I wouldn't expect it to happen very often but I wouldn't be shocked to see it.

Quote from: Thanlis;388820I can see it happening at level 15, assuming poor initiative rolls on the player's part and good ones on the part of the monsters. It wouldn't be one shot, but four shots? Sure. And Seanchai said first round, not one shot. I wouldn't expect it to happen very often but I wouldn't be shocked to see it.

It could easily happen at any level: Several monsters making a full attack can take a PC down quickly.

In one of the final battles of my Charm campaign (this was D&D3.5) there was a battle where a Chichimec used Wail of the Banshee, killed two PCs, and then one got resurrected before the round was even over and then killed again.

Quote from: Thanlis;388820And Seanchai said first round, not one shot.

Yep. It was multiple hits from a few different opponents (the big bruisers had three attacks a round, I think). Also, I play with a group that has a few system mastery people, so it's pretty tough. I made two mistakes: not Fading Away and not using my Cape of the Mountebank.

And, obviously, you can go down from one hit in all sorts of games and editions of D&D.

Seanchai

Quote from: Werekoala;388807Well, maybe at 1st - this was his 15th level character, apparently.

Yes, but 15th is just mid-level these days. Also, we were facing opposition designed for mid- to high-level characters.

Seanchai

Sorry, guess I misread the "round" not "hit" - my bad. I can definitely see a 1st-round takedown.

Quote from: Werekoala;389011Sorry, guess I misread the "round" not "hit" - my bad. I can definitely see a 1st-round takedown.

No worries! I've bounced off you a couple of times in the last pair of days, btw -- I'm sorry if I seem hostile or critical or anything. It's just random chance.

Nah, I just need to be a bit more careful with my replies I guess.

Quote from: Gabriel2;387611I run a D&D4 game with 1 player.  He runs his main PC and during combat he controls an additional Henchman PC.

Same here, though not regularly (not by a long shot). I DMed a one on one for a guy once who wanted to try out 4E. He'd made a dwarven warlord for his own PC and then made up four further dwarven PCs as henchmen at the warlord's behest (mostly fighters IIRC). It was basically the party make up of The Hobbit, minus the hobbit and Gandalf, and it worked out beautifully, with the warlord ordering the other dwarves into formation etc.

I don't like one on one gaming at all generally, and I usually call off D&D sessions when it's less than 4 players (plus me, the DM), but for the occasional experience I'd totally go for 1-2 players if I were the OP. 4E is very friendly to that, since the classes don't work that differently - well, not those in PHB 1. I'd try to not jump on PHB 2 or PHB 3 classes straight away, as these tend to be a bit more special and complex (plus, requiring a tad more book keeping), which doesn't work out well when you got a player controlling multiple PCs.

Finally, you could also check out the henchmen rules in DMG 2 if you wanted to. Perhaps this has been pointed out in the last 5 pages, but I didn't bother to follow the discussion when it steered off topic.

Quote from: Werekoala;389016Nah, I just need to be a bit more careful with my replies I guess.

Nah. I have being less prickly written down as a 2010 goal on my notepad.

Quote from: Werekoala;389011Sorry, guess I misread the "round" not "hit" - my bad. I can definitely see a 1st-round takedown.

It's cool. It was still an oh, crap moment. And put the group in a bad way.

Seanchai