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Koltar's Greyhawk Rumour

Started by RPGPundit, October 28, 2009, 09:08:12 AM

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RPGPundit

In another thread, Koltar said:

QuoteGreyhawk may be in a "gray" area.

Heard a rumor the other day that Gygax had just enough clout or legal claim before he died such that there can never be a 4th edition version of Greyhawk. Something about him not liking the direction that D&D was going. I always wondered why Greyhawk was pushed any more than it was during the D&D 3.X era.

Has anyone else ever heard this? Does anyone have any proof?

RPGPundit
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Thanlis

Quote from: RPGPundit;340818Has anyone else ever heard this? Does anyone have any proof?

Haven't heard it. At a rough guess, WotC published somewhere between 15,000 to 20,000 pages of material for Greyhawk over the lifespan of 3e, so I am dubious about any claim that Gygax was able to limit the amount of Greyhawk material published during that era.

He passed away before 4e was released, although not before people started complaining about it... but the trademark status is clear.

It's hard to believe that any questions about the legal status of the world wouldn't have surfaced already. Certainly Gail Gygax hasn't been shy about reclaiming material when she's wanted to.

Koltar

I DID say it was a rumor.

The guy that said it could be full of bullshit.

However......it is sort of within the realm of plausibility.


- Ed C.
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
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This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
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Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Abyssal Maw

4th Edition Village of Hommlet. Argument over.
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Koltar

Just a browsing of the wikipedia version of things from this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk

There are these tidbits....:

QuoteBy the terms of his settlement with TSR, Gygax kept the rights to Gord the Rogue as well as all D&D characters whose names were anagrams or plays on his own name (for example, Yrag and Zagyg).[129] However, he lost the rights to all his other work, including the world of Greyhawk and the names of all the characters he had ever used in TSR material. Mordenkainen, Robilar, Tenser and Melf—to name a few—no longer belonged to Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz, Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax; their fictional lives were now controlled by TSR.

also:

QuoteThe dungeons of Greyhawk revealed
In its 1986 Summer Mail Order Hobby Shop catalogue, TSR had listed a new Greyhawk adventure called WG7 Shadowlords, a high-level adventure to be written by Gary Gygax and Skip Williams.[137] However, this adventure was cancelled after Gygax left TSR, and the catalogue number WG7 was reassigned to a new adventure, Castle Greyhawk, released in 1988. It was the first new Greyhawk adventure in three years, but players buying the adventure hoping to be finally ushered into Gygax's famous dungeons discovered it had nothing to do with Gygax's original Castle Greyhawk. Instead, it was a compilation of 12 humorous dungeons levels, each one written by a freelance author. The puns and jokes often referenced modern culture—the Amazing Driderman, King Burger, Bugsbear Bunny, and the crew of Star Trek—while the appearance of Mordenkainen in a movie studio seemed to mock Gygax and his time spent in Hollywood trying to land a movie deal for TSR.

The above shows the "new TSR" mocking Gary Gygax. Not Cool. Very Bad Form.

....and there's this:

QuoteIn 1990, TSR decided that the decade-old world of Greyhawk needed to be refreshed. Rather than expanding beyond the boundaries of the Flanaess to develop new lands and new stories, the decision was made to stay within the Flanaess and instead, move the campaign timeline forward a decade, from 576 CY to 586 CY, in order to provide the setting for a new storyline.

The main story vehicle to move the timeline forward would be a war fomented by Iuz that would embroil the entire Flanaess, a device that would allow TSR to radically alter the pattern of regions, alliances and rulers from Gygax's original vision.

Interesting, If I was Gygax, I might be a bit annoyed at that point.

After the purchase of TSR by WOTC:

QuoteHowever, WotC's CEO, Peter Adkison, was a fan of both D&D and Greyhawk, and two major initiatives were created: a revival of Greyhawk, and a new (third) edition of D&D rules. A team of people was put together to revive the moribund Greyhawk setting by pulling together all the previously published information about the campaign setting. Once that was done, the decision was made to update Carl Sargent's storyline, and in much the same way as Sargent had done, using "prequel" adventures to pave the way for the new campaign setting.

Remember tho, Adkison is no longer with WotC. All the times I've talked with or had dealings with Peter Adkison he has been a generally good guy and a fair person.

....more....:

QuoteWotC Greyhawk releases
Despite the popularity of the Living Greyhawk campaign, WotC did not produce much material for Greyhawk after the 25th anniversary "Return to..." series of adventures mentioned above, other than the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and Fright at Tristor. The Standing Stone (2001) by John D. Rateliff did have several minor references to the Greyhawk setting, and Red Hand of Doom (2006) by James Jacob contained instructions for where to set the adventure within the world of Greyhawk (as well as for Forgotten Realms and Eberron). Otherwise, WotC left the development of the Greyhawk world to RPGA's Living Greyhawk campaign and concentrated on producing more source books of new expansion material for the core rules of D&D.

...and:

QuoteSince the launch of D&D 4E in 2008, WotC has not published any further official material for the World of Greyhawk setting.

Thats where the relevent bits stop.

Anyone else know of WotC's plans regarding Greyhawk? Would they be willing to let his family or Kuntz take it over?

- Ed C.
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Koltar

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;3408514th Edition Village of Hommlet. Argument over.

Dude, its not an "argument".

There is nothing to be 'over'.

It was a report /re-telling of a rumor I recently heard.


- Ed C.



Jeez!! Talk about knee-jerk defense of  4th/e (?) when I wasn't even going there....
The return of \'You can\'t take the Sky From me!\'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Thanlis

Quote from: Koltar;340860Dude, its not an "argument".

There is nothing to be 'over'.

It was a report /re-telling of a rumor I recently heard.

Jeez!! Talk about knee-jerk defense of  4th/e (?) when I wasn't even going there....

Oh, I think there was an argument brewing about plausibility. But it's a completely implausible rumor, AM's right.

The Shaman

Actually I heard that Frank Mentzer, Tim Kask, and Jim Ward now have control over Gary Gygax's retained publishing rights to Greyhawk, and it will be republished in a new folio edition with Gail Gygax's blessing sometime in 2010. The notes will be compatible with both OSRIC and Swords and Wizardry apprently (yes, including the ascending AC scale).

As I understand it, the printing costs are being fronted by Bob Bledsaw's estate.
On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that\'s far enough...it\'s a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it\'s far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse

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ACS / LAF

ggroy

Quote from: The Shaman;340867Actually I heard that Frank Mentzer, Tim Kask, and Jim Ward now have control over Gary Gygax's retained publishing rights to Greyhawk, and it will be republished in a new folio edition with Gail Gygax's blessing sometime in 2010. The notes will be compatible with both OSRIC and Swords and Wizardry apprently (yes, including the ascending AC scale).

As I understand it, the printing costs are being fronted by Bob Bledsaw's estate.

Is this satire or for real?   ;)

(The context is not obvious).

Thanlis

Quote from: ggroy;340868Is this satire or for real?   ;)

(The context is not obvious).

Mentzer, Kask, and Ward are doing something. I hadn't heard it was Greyhawk.

The Shaman

Quote from: ggroy;340868Is this satire or for real?   ;)

(The context is not obvious).
As sorely tempted as I am to let this go viral, yes, it was satire.
Quote from: Thanlis;340870Mentzer, Kask, and Ward are doing something. I hadn't heard it was Greyhawk.
The most convincing deceptions are seeded with truth.
On weird fantasy: "The Otus/Elmore rule: When adding something new to the campaign, try and imagine how Erol Otus would depict it. If you can, that\'s far enough...it\'s a good idea. If you can picture a Larry Elmore version...it\'s far too mundane and boring, excise immediately." - Kellri, K&K Alehouse

I have a campaign wiki! Check it out!

ACS / LAF

ggroy

Quote from: The Shaman;340871As sorely tempted as I am to let this go viral, yes, it was satire.The most convincing deceptions are seeded with truth.

The Bob Bledsaw reference triggered my bogometer right away.  :)

Without the Bledsaw reference, it could have fooled some people.

Garnfellow

I'm pretty skeptical about the rumor, but it's worth noting that even without having any rights at all to the Greyhawk property, Gary still would have been in a position to at least impede development of 4e Greyhawk: "Grumpy creator disavows new version of Greyhawk" is not exactly the PR copy any company would want to risk, not when there are plenty of other worlds that could be developed for the new edition.

(It sounds like Greenwood wasn't very enthused about the new version of the Realms, but he was also resigned to the knowledge he had signed those rights away a long time ago. And royalty checks can't hurt, either.)
 

Thanlis

Quote from: Garnfellow;340900I'm pretty skeptical about the rumor, but it's worth noting that even without having any rights at all to the Greyhawk property, Gary still would have been in a position to at least impede development of 4e Greyhawk: "Grumpy creator disavows new version of Greyhawk" is not exactly the PR copy any company would want to risk, not when there are plenty of other worlds that could be developed for the new edition.

That ship sailed a while time ago. See here:

"Later TSR and WotC approach to and treatment of the setting was quite contrary to the purpose for which I intended it when it was created."

He also noted extreme distaste for 3e, which didn't hold that edition back much. I don't think anyone at WotC would be very worried about the PR. We respect Gygax, even when we disagree with his views, but we're a teensy tiny minority.

Sacrificial Lamb

#14
But Gygax retained control over Gord, didn't he? And Gord is a character straight out of Greyhawk....so wouldn't the Gygax estate be able to publish products relating to that? I was rereading "Sea of Death" a few weeks ago, and I'm now holding in my hands one of the "Gord the Rogue" books that Gygax published. What do you guys think of the copyright and trademark notice in the front of the book...? Does anyone out there know anything about Trigee Enterprises Corporation?

GORD THE ROGUEBooks

SEA OF DEATH

Copyright © 1987 Trigee Enterprises Corporation.
                                  All rights reserved.

SEA OF DEATH takes place in the locale described in the WORLD OF GREYHAWKFantasy Game Setting, which was created by Gary Gygax. Characters, towns, places, and landmarks from that product are used pursuant to license from TSR, Inc. All characters and names in this book are fictitious. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or to actual places and events, is purely coincidental.

This book is protected under the copyright laws of the United States of America. Any reproduction or other unauthorized use of the material or artwork contained herein is prohibited without the express written permission of the copyright holder.

GORD THE ROGUE is a trademark owned by Trigee Enterprises Corporation.

The New Infinities Production Logo is a trademark owned by New Infinities Productions, Inc.


WORLD OF GREYHAWK and DUNGEONS & DRAGONS are trademarks owned by TSR, Inc. The use of these terms in this product has not been approved by TSR, Inc.

The name "Ace" and the "A" logo are trademarks belonging to Charter Communications, Inc.

First Printing, June 1987
Printed in the United States of America

Distributed by the Berkley Publishing Group, 200 Madison Avenue, New York NY 10016

9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

ISBN: 0-441-75676-X

New Infinities Productions, Inc.
832 Geneva St.
Lake Geneva WI 53147