Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025569Alien invasions were done all the time during the silver age. Where the heroes did not kill. So no. I don't see a problem there.

This is incredibly naive when you're enemies may be trying to wipe out an entire species...  But maybe, I'm jumping the gun.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025569My books are aimed at an all ages audience. So showing blood. gore. and atrocity isn't on the table at all.

Did they happen, though?  Did the alien invaders actually try and wipe out entire cities of men, women and children?  Or did you set it up like a Saturday morning cartoon, where no one ever got hurt?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1025595Did they happen, though?  Did the alien invaders actually try and wipe out entire cities of men, women and children?  Or did you set it up like a Saturday morning cartoon, where no one ever got hurt?

Police and emergency services I don't treat as incompetant. Together with the heroes, they were able to contain the invasion at its point of entry. The collateral damage was the town that was at ground zero. Which almost got wiped out entirely.

An entire graphic novel was dedicated to the aftermath of the invasion. Heroes helping the relief effort, Heroes finding survivors and getting them medical attention. And the mourning of the lives lost because of the invasion. So yes, the damage had a real human impact.

I should preface that by saying that I seldom play anything superhero-related...or maybe I play it all the time. Does Exalted count? Legends of the Wulin, Tianxia and Qin? Witchcraft and Sorcerer:D?
So yes, I definitely play games with superpowered protagonists.
They're not always games with superheroes, though.

Anyway, I generally have no problems at all with killing, as long as it's for a reason. I mean, I've played a S&S character that would consider "drowning the world in the blood of thy enemies" a perfectly reasonable answer to losing someone she was attracted to:). She wasn't exactly an exception.
Then again, I also play characters who believe in proportional response, and I've even played pacifists who refused to inflict lasting harm (though those are the exception).

Are all of the above heroes? Yes, because the word "hero" has at least two different meanings. In the one I'm using, it's about "a person who is admired for their courage and/or achievements". Superheroes default to "being admired for noble qualities and possibly achievements". Oh, and courage is part of said qualities, too.
So, I use it like I'd use it for Greek heroes. Even if I, personally, consider a lot of them to be flawed people;).
Then again, we're all flawed.

The problem is, the hero part of superhero genre has the meaning of "noble qualities". Might be because of the Comic Code, or whatever, but that's how it's seen today.
I tend to play games that don't care about said qualities, though. And I seldom, if ever, played games like FASERIP, where killing is out of bounds.
If anything, my games have featured, much more often, the moment where striking someone with Exalted power turns out to be not merely punishing, or even disabling, but can be outright murderous. (Being struck by someone who can press several tonnes would realistically be like this, because it's worse than being run over by a car).

That said, I wouldn't mind playing in a game with a Silver Age code. It would be a change of pace, if nothing else...but I don't know anyone who's a fan of Silver Age comics and would run a game (I know some people who are fans, but don't play RPGs, and obviously I know RPGs players who aren't fans).
But, and here's a big butt...don't make it a Silver Age game in a world where those standards make no sense!
If I'm playing Batman, and the Joker is killing people, I might capture him alive, if it wouldn't endanger other people. If he runs out of Arkham after that? He's bound to suffer an accident when we meet again.
Not killing where the antiutopia is deploying annihilation cameras? You'd need a really good pitch to get me to play someone like that.
Otherwise, prepare for full-blown V for Vendetta times.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025606Police and emergency services I don't treat as incompetant. Together with the heroes, they were able to contain the invasion at its point of entry. The collateral damage was the town that was at ground zero. Which almost got wiped out entirely.

Not the way most invasions would go.  Multiple targets at the same time, force the enemy on the back foot as they scramble to contain all the 'fires' so to speak.  Well, if it's a Silver Age style of story, having incompetent bad guys is pretty much par for the course, so that's 'in setting'.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025606An entire graphic novel was dedicated to the aftermath of the invasion. Heroes helping the relief effort, Heroes finding survivors and getting them medical attention. And the mourning of the lives lost because of the invasion. So yes, the damage had a real human impact.

Oh, so it's a post-apocalyptic style of story, where the big bad thing that destroyed the world has already happened, the stories are about the aftermath, rather than the event.

Even though I don't mind violence and death in superhero games, I'd be OK without it if the nature of the villains was street-level... bank robbers and cultists and demented weirdos. It would mean stopping some bullets and the occasional explosion... but not the sort of juiced up power that destroys whole blocks of a city.
Still, I prefer The Shadow... who was more than happy to gun down his enemies.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1025624Not the way most invasions would go.  Multiple targets at the same time, force the enemy on the back foot as they scramble to contain all the 'fires' so to speak.  Well, if it's a Silver Age style of story, having incompetent bad guys is pretty much par for the course, so that's 'in setting'.

It sounds pretty cartoonish and sanitized  on the level of G.I. Joe or Super-friends or similar shows. Its a style, just not one I'd employ or get into (aside from maybe nostalgia driven one shot). For a serious game, it'd feel really fake for me. But I'm not gonna finger wag at people that like it. The thread is about how you feel about death in supers games, not the Ultimate True Way it should be.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1025624Not the way most invasions would go.  Multiple targets at the same time, force the enemy on the back foot as they scramble to contain all the 'fires' so to speak.  Well, if it's a Silver Age style of story, having incompetent bad guys is pretty much par for the course, so that's 'in setting'.

It was an invasion through a wormhole hose end is just outside of a small island port town town southeast of New Orleans. That was the entry point. It wasn't an entry from orbit.

This wormhole makes that town the most dangerous place on the planet. Because the other end wiggles through the universe randomly. Causing all kinds of things to come through at random.

The town doesn't exist in real life. Where it would be is a small patch of islands in the gulf. Making fictional towns or cities have a long tradition in comics fiction.

I wouldn't call my books sanitized or anything like G.I. Joe. I just don't show the gore on screen. It's not necessary.

Leaving the nasty stuff to the imagination of the reader is something I vastly prefer. I subscribe to the idea that a reader's imagination filling in those blanks is the best approach. That it carries more impact on the reader than a blood and gore scene ever could.

Quote from: CarlD.;1025628It sounds pretty cartoonish and sanitized  on the level of G.I. Joe or Super-friends or similar shows. Its a style, just not one I'd employ or get into (aside from maybe nostalgia driven one shot). For a serious game, it'd feel really fake for me. But I'm not gonna finger wag at people that like it. The thread is about how you feel about death in supers games, not the Ultimate True Way it should be.

I meant from a Silver Age design, it's perfect.  It's the right amount of 'incompetence' that a Silver Age comic typically has, as typified by Adam West's Batman series.  It's meant for fun, not wallowing in tragedy.  It's not my kind of thing, but I'm not the arbiter of anyone's fun but my own.

I agree, that a more 'realistic' (In a superhero game?  Am I CRAZY?) invasion would not just attack a single, easily defended choke point, but again, not my call, and if the Graphic Novels are or are not enjoyed, who the fuck am I to say they're right or wrong?

They are enjoyed. A grandmother was looking for something suitable for her young grandson when she discovered them at one of the conventions we attended.

They were the source of one of my first reviews. They both loved the books and the characters in them. Which made me very happy and proud. And very much validated.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025797They are enjoyed. A grandmother was looking for something suitable for her young grandson when she discovered them at one of the conventions we attended.

Well, I think we can agree that's great, regardless of whether we're personally interested in said graphic novels:)!

Although I allow killing in my supers games, I don't think I treat it lightly.  It's a massive event that gets a lot of 'societal' attention every time.  But I also don't punish my players excessively like the FASERIP system does.

Quote from: tenbones;1025331So where do you stand in Supers in RPG's where heroes either kill bad guys? Anti-heroes? How do you handle it?

Part of the problem when the villains are killed off is you have to come up with new villains. In a supers game you try to have them be as unique as the heroes. That becomes difficult after the first 20 or so.

That said, the power level and scope of the game is important. I find it easier when we're playing at a street-hero level. Then powers tend to be in addition to neo-Olympic level physicality or hyper-competent professional skills.

These days, if I'm running a supers game it is either a mid-level Silver age style, and there isn't killing except for the truly evil bad guys at the end of an arc. Otherwise, it's more of a Strikeforce Morituri style game, where there are casualties on both sides expected.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1025852Although I allow killing in my supers games, I don't think I treat it lightly.  It's a massive event that gets a lot of 'societal' attention every time.  But I also don't punish my players excessively like the FASERIP system does.

The FASERIP system was created and existed before the Iron Age of comics took over Marvel. It was very much a Bronze Age game that enforced Bronze Age sensibilities. That's the reason why that game punished so harshly for killing. Because it was outside of the boundries Marvel had previously existed in.

It also is why the game itself had problems when they started importing Iron Age characters via later supplements. They just didn't fit within the paradigm of the game.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1025871The FASERIP system was created and existed before the Iron Age of comics took over Marvel. It was very much a Bronze Age game that enforced Bronze Age sensibilities. That's the reason why that game punished so harshly for killing. Because it was outside of the boundries Marvel had previously existed in.

It also is why the game itself had problems when they started importing Iron Age characters via later supplements. They just didn't fit within the paradigm of the game.

I can't remember exactly what it was I did, but I had a negative-karma fudge for Punisher/Ghost Rider/Rapier-style vigilante characters in my high-school FASERIP game. Like, they could 'spend' negative karma but couldn't use it to advance, or whatever. But yeah, what you said above makes a lot of sense.