Quote from: J Arcane;762171It is an immoral act.

That the act was committed for such petty jealousies is not much of a defense.

I think it is possibly a lame act, but I would not say it is immoral. If he were trying to erase it from existance and rounding up every copy he could get that would be one thing. But burning one copy of a book he doesn't like and could just as easily throw away? It is just a symbolic gesture in this case. I certainly think censorship is wrong, and I think burning books in order to prevent others from reading them is wrong. I just do not think that doing damage to one of your own books when the aim is humor or performance art is wrong. Heck I mark up all my books all the time with notes and have been told by some people that is immoral because books are sacred. To me that doesn't make sense because note taking in the margins helps me engage the text more.

Instead of being an idiot and burning the books, I will gladly take them for free, I will find some use for them.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;762173I think it is possibly a lame act, but I would not say it is immoral.

And I would.

So there you go.

Is burning a book more or less moral than simply throwing it in the trash?

What if the trash gets incinerated?

What if the trash gets recycled?

Does it make a difference if the book is a mass-produced commercial product where it is trivially easy to obtain alternate physical and electronic copies?

Book burning as a means of repression, intimidation, or erasing knowledge is as abhorrent to me as it is to anyone in this thread. At the same time, one guy burning a copy of a book he doesn't want any more and where ample replacements are available just isn't the same thing and it's melodramatic and simplistic to pretend it is. It's a childlike approach to morality where you parrot "book burning = bad" without actually understanding why books have been burned in the past and why it is bad, when that happened, and why this particular instance really doesn't have that much in common with those.

In addition, getting upset about burning books but not getting equally upset about books getting pulped (as publishers and bookshops do all the time) is a classic example of magical superstition overriding actual thought.

Publicly announcing that you're going to burn a book, and then presumably burning it, is completely different from a remaindered book being pulped. It's a overt, public act meant to send a message - hate. And some people will applaud that hate out of tribal solidarity. And some are calling it out for being a dick move worthy of contempt.

Edits in bold are mine,

Quote from: Haffrung;762281Publicly announcing that you're going to throw a book in the garbage, and then presumably trashing it, is completely different from a remaindered book being pulped. It's a overt, public act meant to send a message - hate. And some people will applaud that hate out of tribal solidarity. And some are calling it out for being a dick move worthy of contempt.

Does the method matter?

Quote from: Haffrung;762281Publicly announcing that you're going to burn a phone book, and then  presumably burning it, is completely different from a remaindered book  being pulped. It's a overt, public act meant to send a message - hate.  And some people will applaud that hate out of tribal solidarity. And  some are calling it out for being a dick move worthy of contempt.    

Does the content matter?

We pretty regularly use newspapers and phone books to help get fires going in our fire pit.

Quote from: Warthur;762277Book burning as a means of repression, intimidation, or erasing knowledge is as abhorrent to me as it is to anyone in this thread. At the same time, one guy burning a copy of a book he doesn't want any more and where ample replacements are available just isn't the same thing and it's melodramatic and simplistic to pretend it is. It's a childlike approach to morality where you parrot "book burning = bad" without actually understanding why books have been burned in the past and why it is bad, when that happened, and why this particular instance really doesn't have that much in common with those.

Once upon a time there were a great many books, now rare, that were abundant in their day.

As pointed out above, that the OP did such a thing for such petty reasons over so petty a thing makes the act, in my opinion, worse.

He removed knowledge from the world for no other reason than he didn't like the game. Even the fascists thought they were improving the world; he's just pissed an elfgame didn't conform to his taste specifications.

And no, I don't like the practice of pulping books either, so there's that gotcha you can shove up your ass too.

Quote from: JamesV;762282Does the method matter?

Why don't you ask the person who decided to burn the book instead of throw it in the garbage? Presumably it matters to him.

Quote from: J Arcane;762289Once upon a time there were a great many books, now rare, that were abundant in their day.

As pointed out above, that the OP did such a thing for such petty reasons over so petty a thing makes the act, in my opinion, worse.

He removed knowledge from the world for no other reason than he didn't like the game. Even the fascists thought they were improving the world; he's just pissed an elfgame didn't conform to his taste specifications.

And no, I don't like the practice of pulping books either, so there's that gotcha you can shove up your ass too.

Not to speak for others but the degree of difference matters to me. One guy burning a copy of their least favorite elfgame doesn't rank with the sacking of Alexandria or Baghdad.

Wacky or dickish sure, but the second coming of fascism?

Also, I'm not certain about it, but aren't pulped books recycled? What should be done to a book that no-one wants, or is worn beyond practical use?

Quote from: Haffrung;762292Why don't you ask the person who decided to burn the book instead of throw it in the garbage? Presumably it matters to him.

Indeed, I highly doubt the symbolism of the act is lost on the OP, given he chose such a ceremonial means to dispose of it.

There are a panoply of methods by which to dispose of an unwanted book, some of which would've even netted some actual monetary return.

Instead he chooses a public book burning, and we're supposed to believe that was a perfectly innocent decision?

Horsecocks.

QuoteWacky or dickish sure, but the second coming of fascism?

It doesn't have to be the second coming of fascism to still be wrong and immoral.

Exactly what makes the OP any better than the MADD mothers? Where I'm sitting, he comes out the worse. His reasoning is certainly more childish and petty.

QuoteWhat should be done to a book that no-one wants, or is worn beyond practical use?

Very often pulped books aren't necessarily 'books no-one wants' but 'books not enough people want at a fast enough rate to satisfy the profit margins of the book industry, and due to the vagaries of tax and accounting rules are more profitable to destroy rather than contribute to the library system or sell through more discount channels'.

Quote from: J Arcane;762289Once upon a time there were a great many books, now rare, that were abundant in their day.

Yes, and they have rotten away, or were lost in raiding parties, with the exception of the few huge ones by Mongols, Arabs and Christians in Alexandria.

Really, comparing burning a copy of a mass produced book in XXI century, where there are PDF copies of it around to Destruction of Library of Alexandria (which you are aiming for with the "Oh the lost knowledge of the Ancients!!1) is like comparing throwing out a half - eaten hot dog to Irish Potato Famine.

Both acts are wasteful, yes, both technically contribute to the same problem, but if you look a bit closer, you can see that the equivalence is false.

You really need this as a Proof of the Darker Nature of Man? Fine, it's a proof we're wasteful, grudge bearing, tribal bastards. It's however no way in hell a proof of some dark intent to destroy knowledge born in heart of every human.

Obviously, saying this is just the same as using newspaper to light up a grill isn't exactly true neither, because obviously this is a symbol of childish spite for 4e. But on the other hand, let's not pretend he's burning original print of Shakespeare because he does not like the swear words.

Also, lol squared at 4e being the "Great Lost Book of Our Generation." Oh, if only that madman hasn't burned it in this yard, our grand descendants might have figured out why there are thousands of gygabytes arguing about this Second Wind mechanic (what did they have against winds blowing again?)!

Quote from: JamesV;762293Not to speak for others but the degree of difference matters to me. One guy burning a copy of their least favorite elfgame doesn't rank with the sacking of Alexandria or Baghdad.

You say that, but obviously we should enjoy the game, before "Zhe Mongols" come.

Dorkier than larp.

Quote from: Rincewind1;762306Yes, and they have rotten away, or were lost in raiding parties, with the exception of the few huge ones by Mongols, Arabs and Christians in Alexandria.

Really, comparing burning a copy of a mass produced book in XXI century, where there are PDF copies of it around to Destruction of Library of Alexandria (which you are aiming for with the "Oh the lost knowledge of the Ancients!!1) is like comparing throwing out a half - eaten hot dog to Irish Potato Famine.

Both acts are wasteful, yes, both technically contribute to the same problem, but if you look a bit closer, you can see that the equivalence is false.

You really need this as a Proof of the Darker Nature of Man? Fine, it's a proof we're wasteful, grudge bearing, tribal bastards. It's however no way in hell a proof of some dark intent to destroy knowledge born in heart of every human.

Obviously, saying this is just the same as using newspaper to light up a grill isn't exactly true neither, because obviously this is a symbol of childish spite for 4e. But on the other hand, let's not pretend he's burning original print of Shakespeare because he does not like the swear words.

Also, lol squared at 4e being the "Great Lost Book of Our Generation." Oh, if only that madman hasn't burned it in this yard, our grand descendants might have figured out why there are thousands of gygabytes arguing about this Second Wind mechanic (what did they have against winds blowing again?)!



You say that, but obviously we should enjoy the game, before "Zhe Mongols" come.

I completely get that this event doesn't carry a whole lot of historical significance. He's just doing it to make a personal statement. And what that statement boils down to is He's a hateful little book-burning douche-rocket.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;762315I completely get that this event doesn't carry a whole lot of historical significance. He's just doing it to make a personal statement. And what that statement boils down to is He's a hateful little book-burning douche-rocket.

Bingo.

Furthermore, why does it have to live up to this standard ...

QuoteNot to speak for others but the degree of difference matters to me. One guy burning a copy of their least favorite elfgame doesn't rank with the sacking of Alexandria or Baghdad.

... to be wrong?

I made that comparison out of poetic license, but some seem instead to want to use that as an excuse for it.

Why are you fucking people so determined to bend over backwards to defend such a flatly immoral behavior?

Why do we have to look to 5,000 years from now, when we can look to 5? 5 years from now some kid is gonna walk into a used book store where that book could've been, and it won't be there. He won't pick it up, intrigued by the art on the cover. He won't try his own hand at playing it, and find it enjoyable but wanting. He wont move on to other games, or even to inventing his own, that might very well change the whole hobby as we know it.

We. Don't. Know.

We can't.

That's the point of preserving knowledge, even knowledge we think is "wrong".

Because you never know when somewhere in the future, that "wrong" knowledge might turn out to be true with the right bit of extra legwork, or might inspire someone else to make new knowledge that actually is right. Indeed, some of 4th editions mistakes or half-baked ideas directly inspired work I've done since.

It is one of the fundamental principles of human civilization, and this fuckwhistle tosses that away because what? He didn't like it?

Fuck him, and fuck you lot for defending him.