Many long years ago, when I was a Wee Pika with Empty Pockets (but not, I can assure you, in Pooh Corner)

I stumbled across this game, specifically the CyberMedTech Sourcebook for it, which led to the eventual purchace of the actual game.

Long story short, I eventually also found a 'Guardians' RPG by the same company with the same rules, only for Superheros.

Sadly, I have never had a chance to play them, nor have I heard one peep out of the internet geek crowd about them. If it were not for the precious books lying on my desk right now I might doubt that I'd ever seen them.

Anyone got any Justifiers stuff to talk about? Or other oddball games that cropped up in antiquity that seem to have vanished from the collective conciousness of gamerdom?

Nope.  Nothing much to say about it.

My game group discovered it on one of our forays to the used book store (they had a small RPG section).  I think this was about the time when we discovered Rifts.  Anyway, my best friend bought Justifiers, and he and I both read it.

We liked the general premise (what there was of it).  But we despised the rules.  My friend tried to start a campaign once, but after dealing with the frustrating character creation the whole group swore off Justifiers.  Instead we just went back to TMNT, which had more animal options, and could be run in a Justifiers setting anyway.

Quote from: GabrielNope.  Nothing much to say about it.

My game group discovered it on one of our forays to the used book store (they had a small RPG section).  I think this was about the time when we discovered Rifts.  Anyway, my best friend bought Justifiers, and he and I both read it.

We liked the general premise (what there was of it).  But we despised the rules.  My friend tried to start a campaign once, but after dealing with the frustrating character creation the whole group swore off Justifiers.  Instead we just went back to TMNT, which had more animal options, and could be run in a Justifiers setting anyway.

True. But TMNT is one of the Great Games of the Universe.

-clash

I loved Justifiers, the premise is solidish (I'm not sure how many animal traits real human chimeras would express--but the general idea was to keep the animal traits in Justifiers I suspect)

I've run one campaign and a couple of adventures with it. Its a basic percentile system, not hot, not brilliant, but fairly solid. Over on RPG.net there was Jason Blair (writer of Little Fears and Normal Texas) claiming he had rights to publish a new version--but he was going kinda Forgie with its design (now not necessarily TOO much so, but he'd already adopted terminology I found ridiculous and silly..)

I own a copy, I also have pondered other systems (there are conversion notes of a sort over on Pinnacle forums for Savage Worlds)


I think part of the issue with Justifiers is in spite of a solid SF premise, the 'animal people' (Betas) come too close to "furry"--rather than SF (Like the rather pulpy detective/SF novel "Forests of the Night" by S. Andrew Swann). And 'furry' tends to be considered by many some geeks as something they find socially lower than themselves.

Me I like anthropomorphics, from Albedo, TMNT, Justifiers, and Ironclaw. I like the concepts for telling "human" stories with animals (Animal Farm) and my own Wildbreed Mecha setting.

Quote from: SilverlionI think part of the issue with Justifiers is in spite of a solid SF premise, the 'animal people' (Betas) come too close to "furry"--rather than SF (Like the rather pulpy detective/SF novel "Forests of the Night" by S. Andrew Swann). And 'furry' tends to be considered by many some geeks as something they find socially lower than themselves.

Absolutely. The "Furry" subculture really didn't exist back then. Back then, this was hard core heavy-metal Redwall or Mouseguard set in an SF world.

Today, if the game wasn't treated VERY carefully, I'd not even touch it. I'd see one "furry" art pic, and I'd drop the book as if it were on fire. With Hanta.

-Andy

See, I discovered this book and the Forests of the Night stuff long before I'd ever heard of furries, like over a decade for Justifiers.  I haven't actually read the books for a couple of years, but I seem to recall one or two clever ideas in them I haven't seen elsewhere. I still think the basic premise of the setting is an Awesome adventure idea...

Go forth and explore/settle a new colony without any support from home for the next few years. When you get back, we'll send you out again until you can afford to buy your freedom... oh, and did we mention that you can spend that money you're saving up for freedom on things that will make surviving that long easier? Just checking....:cool:

Quote from: Andy KAbsolutely. The "Furry" subculture really didn't exist back then. Back then, this was hard core heavy-metal Redwall or Mouseguard set in an SF world.

Today, if the game wasn't treated VERY carefully, I'd not even touch it. I'd see one "furry" art pic, and I'd drop the book as if it were on fire. With Hanta.

-Andy

Have you ever seen the cover the Hybrid sourcebook?

I mean seriously naked Cheetah chick.  I think that Justifiers is 'furry'; it is about anthropomorphic animal people, you don't quite get unfurry from that. Mind you, if you mean sexualizing and fetishing such things--I'm right there with you.

Key 20 was supposed to publish Justifiers Omega Edition, but once Jason left, it's apparently dropped from the radar.  

the other site mentions something about it as recently as October, so all hope isn't lost.

Quote from: SilverlionI loved Justifiers, the premise is solidish (I'm not sure how many animal traits real human chimeras would express--but the general idea was to keep the animal traits in Justifiers I suspect)

I always loved the setup of Justifiers -- the players get cool powers in the form of animal hybrids, with allowances for a bit of psionics if you wanted to swing that way; the tech was spread out unevenly, so the GM felt justified in handing out anything from 1990's era machine guns ("Man, you pissed of the Supply Officer this week!") to nuke gernades ("*How* many second delay?"); the teleporting technology put the characters on a new world exactly as often as you wanted to, and was built on a solid foundation of handwavium so the physicists in the group couldn't complain.

The system left much to be desired, but (as you can imagine) I found it translated over to GURPS with little problem.

It was just about the perfect convention pickup game.

I was really looking forward to new material (any new material!), but when that fell through, I found GURPS Bio-Tech scratched that itch a bit.

Man, I need to add a Justifiers campaign to my prospectus roster!

Now I just need to figure out how to adapt the premise of Justifiers (other than the animal people I guess ) to a fantasy game. That is what I need...

Is it possible with a single world campaign setting to pull something like this off? Yeah, you, go here do this... if you do good I'll let you buy back those magic goodies... if you do bad but survive. Meh. Out you go again, slave.

Quote from: SpikeNow I just need to figure out how to adapt the premise of Justifiers (other than the animal people I guess ) to a fantasy game. That is what I need...

Is it possible with a single world campaign setting to pull something like this off? Yeah, you, go here do this... if you do good I'll let you buy back those magic goodies... if you do bad but survive. Meh. Out you go again, slave.

Instead of animal peeps, you could have them all be pikas...

-clash

Well a way to do it is Wizards are known for creating hybrids--this is where of course you get things like Gnolls, Manticores, etc.

A gathering of Wizards discover a new world to explore, a harsh, world but with great untapped resources for both their experiments and the lands they dwell in. One of their members or more leaks the knowledge to the world. Now wizards are rushing to exploit this new world, by sending in there "metas" (metamorphed individuals) who are created to survive more hostile environments of the new world by giving them traits of animals. Flesh and blood and material items can be sent through but not at the same time, and the dimensional physics are such that they can't always hit the exact same spot--so they send naked Metas through the gate, then "magic drop" gear for them they've got to recover from the drop site--which could be nearby, or could be far away, hence the reasons metas are often predators or other animals with natural weapons and/or defenses (turtle-men, armadillo men, bat-men for their senses, tiger-men for there strength and combat abilities) and so on.

Quote from: SilverlionI own a copy, I also have pondered other systems

It was one of my favorite settings, we used TMNT, but that got a bit silly after a while, I eventually transplanted it into Cyberpunk 2020 and it worked well

Huh, I just ran across my copy of this game.

It'll probably go into my 'games I want to trade' list, next time I can be bothered to update it.

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I did a timeline for a Justifiers game that never took off. I thought it might be interesting to other Justifiers fans.

The dates are a tad off now but they were relevant when written.

2005: The first successful fusion of human and animal genetic material.
      Debate over the beings legal status begins even before it's birth.
      The being is a male chimpanzee/human cross and is dubbed an
      Alpha-Humanoid. His life is brief, as a "Humans Only" radical group
      firebomb the labs housing him.

2008: In an attempt to get back on the political map Iraq releases a
      new bio-plague. A version of the Pneumonic Plague (the Black Death),
      it quickly becomes a pandemic. Within a year forty-seven million are
      dead worldwide, 60% of the deaths being concentrated in Europe and
      North America. The First Plague enters the history books.

2009: Dr. Eugene McGuire, of the US Center for Disease Control (CDC), makes
      the breakthrough that leads to a cure. Dr. McGuire comes out of
      the panic looking like a knight in shining armour. All told, world
      wide, there are sixty three million dead before a vaccine is delivered.
      Iraq is invaded by the United Nations and ceases to be a nation.

2012: Standing on a pro-technology political platform, Dr. Eugene Mcguire
      wins the `12 US election by a landslide. The doorway for technical
      research is wide open...genetic engineering becomes THE money
      making field to be in. A dozen Alpha-Humanoid species are patented
      in 2013 alone...

2014: The first permanent Lunar colony is founded, Clarke Base.

2015: Human, cybernetic integrating achieved at the University of
      Oklahoma. Opens the door for the first "cyborgs".

2016: President Eugene McGuire wins the re-election. Genetic labs
      throughout America rejoice...

2018: Man lands on Mars, establishes Gorbachev Base.

2021: The Second Plague strikes mankind. Later testimony discloses that
      this disease originated in the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Ga.
      By 2023 two hundred and thirteen million people are dead, another
      four hundred and fifty seven million suffer permanent nerve damage.
      Most Western governments fall, to one degree or another, including
      the US, Canada, Mexico, all of Central and South America, and all
      of Europe except for the Netherlands and France.

2024: A vaccine is found for the Second Plague in France by Dr. Cluade
      Verdonne. No cure is ever found for those surviving the Plague
      but suffering nerve damage. Total world casualties: three hundred
      and seventy two million dead, and nine hundred and thirty three
      million with permanent nerve damage.

2025: The UN declares itself as the first World Government, headed by
      France, China and the United African Nations. The first president
      is Joseph Macumbe, a native African educated in Kenya and Oxford.
      The first World Council is convened on November 19th, 2025.

2026: Insurrections are put down in the US, Scotland and Germany by the
      World Council Armed Forces, a military force made up of soldiers
      from, at least in part, the countries rebelling. The World Council
      authorizes use of tactical nuclear weapons on a unit of it's own
      army that joins the rebellion in El Paso, TX. The rebellions die
      out rather quickly after that...

2028: The first base established in the Asteroid Belt on Cirrus.

2030: The world discovers, much to many peoples surprise, that the World
      Council is doing a better job than the governments it replaced.

2033: A World Council Court declares Alpha-Humanoids "protected" species.

2047: First fusion reactor goes on-line in Chiba, Japan. Once the fusion
      reaction has begun it only requires distilled water as fuel.

2054: The first fully bipedal, bimanual Humanoid is developed. Dubbed
      Beta-Humanoids they are extended the Alphas "protected" status.

2056: Radical anti-humanoid political parties spring up all over the
      planet. Tauting a "Humans Only" theme, many are backed by religious
      leaders, both big and small.

2066: There are seven Lunar bases, four Martian and seventeen in the
      out-system. Twelve million people now live off Earth.

2071: The founding principles of psionics are discovered by Dr. Rashien
      Bapuul, student of science and Hindu teachings. The talent for
      psionics among Humans is low (5%), the percentage among Betas
      and Augmented Humans is kept strictly Top Secret...

2085: Pierre DuBois is elected World Council President on a "Humans
      Only" platform. He quickly "pads" the Council with his own, loyal
      members. Two outspoken Counselors, who disagree with Pres. DuBois,
      have untimely accidents...

2087: With strong military backing, Pres. DuBois leads a bloodless coup
      of the Council. He declares himself Emperor Pierre the First of the
      Imperium of Humanity (aka Empire of Man). Much to even his surprise,
      no one seems to care...
     
2088: Emperor Pierre I declares that all beings with more than a 0.1%
      genetic variance from humans are hereby non-Citizens. Effectively
      making them slave races.

2090: The capitol of the Imperium is moved to the L5 station, Crystal
      Palace. There are now forty-nine million people living in the
      "High Colonies".

2093: The First Beta Uprising takes place. Four hundred thousand Betas
      are killed, but they take two and a half million humans with them.
      An unknown number of Betas escape to the Asteroid Belt and the Oort
      Cloud.

2102: The Imperial Esper Academy opens it doors in the Asimov Dome, on
      Mars. Security is extremely tight, unauthorized personal are shot
      on sight, no questions asked. Enrollment isn't overwhelming.

2106: The Laser Stasis System is developed, allowing living or non-living
      objects to be placed in a state of suspended animation indefinitely.  
      Interstellar travel is now more than just a dream.




2108: Lifeships begin being launched by every political, religious, ethnic
      and national group that can afford one. Trajectories are picked
      for religious or political reasons as often as scientific ones.
      Between 2108 and 2196 some four hundred, chartered, Lifeships are
      launched. The number of unregistered, unchartered launches is
      unknown. Betas and Augmented Humans are forbidden from shipping
      out on Lifeships.

2109: The Betas secretly launch a Lifeship, with over one hundred and
      twenty thousand persons on board, on a deep-space trajectory towards
      a neighboring star system.

2112: Emperor Pierre I dies of natural causes, his son Rene takes up the
      Imperial crown, as Emperor Rene I.

2145: The first Augmented Humans are designed and put into full production.
      Many of the first generation defect to the Rebel Beta stations.
      There are now over two billion Citizens in the High Colonies.

2168: Emperor Rene I is assassinated, his son Pierre is suspected but
      no hard evidence ever comes to light. He is crowned Pierre II under
      a cloud of suspicion.

2189: An experimental "stargate" is tested in a Los Angeles dockside
      warehouse. The resulting explosion "removes" a 10km sphere of matter
      to... elsewhere. Luckily the technical notes were stored in more
      than one computer.

2192: It is discovered that the "jump-drive" requires a powerful magnetic
      field to work properly. Artificial magnetic fields are hard to
      produce, a natural source is searched for.

2193: The natural magnetic field is found, at the poles of the sun. A test
      drive is made and fired, the test vehicle is never seen again...
      The 10km sphere appears to be the maximum size limit, anything larger
      undergoes a near instantaneous shift to an entropy state, i.e. they just
      disappear.

2194: Emperor Pierre the Third takes the throne and establishes the
      Survey Team program.

2195: The Imperial Esper Corp. scores its first victory, in putting down
      a Beta rebellion plot. The Corp. quickly earns a reputation as
      the Branch of the Imperium that no one escapes.

2196: The first successful Jump is made on June 26th, 2196. The Solar
      Gate only opens onto one other star. This star however opens onto
      two others, and the third system has thirteen Jump Points. This
      system is named Nexus. As each star has two poles, the "north"
      is dedicated to outgoing traffic and the "south" dedicated to
      incoming.

2214: Pierre III creates the Sub-Citizen caste as a reward for loyal
      Beta and Augmented Human service. The Survey Teams go into full
      service.

2215: Emperor Edmund the First takes the throne and rules over twenty two
      star systems. Non-Citizens and Sub-Citizens now out number Citizens.


2229: Edmund I moves the Imperial capitol to the only habitable planet
      orbiting Nexus. Terraforming is begun to improve the planet's
      atmosphere and biosphere. Edmund I retains the Crystal Palace as
      an Imperial "retreat".

2234: The Imperium encounters the first non-Terran sentients, known as the
      Histians. A race of bronze-age humanoids, which are quickly conquered
      and made part of the Imperium. For the greater glory of Humanity of
      course...

2255: The Second Beta Uprising takes place, as combined Beta and Augmented
      Human forces breaks out of Humanspace to the great unknown. Legends
      of Outlaw Worlds quickly develop, know as the Free Planets by the
      Betas and Augmented Humans. Twenty eight million non-Citizens and
      Sub-Citizens are put to death, another fifty three million are
      imprisoned or shipped to Hell Worlds.

2261: Emperor Rene II survives the successful assault upon his father,
      the late Edmund I. Rene II conducts the Great Purge of the Empires
      political structure. Many desperate political exiles seek the
      rumored safety of the Free Planets. Their success or failure at
      this attempt is unknown.

2291: The second non-human sentient race is encountered and conquered.
      The Barif, an industrial age, steam-era, race of humanoids.
      The Imperium now controls forty three star systems. Citizens are
      now out numbered five to one by Non- and Sub-Citizens.

2293: The High Colonies now have a greater population than the
      terrestrial colonies.

2301: The Empress Isaboe murders her husband Rene II and leads a bloody
      coup against his government. The Empresses' Purge lasts for three
      years, and kills untold millions. Thus ends the reign of Dubois
      and begins the Reign of DeCalais.

2315: Designer bio-forms become commonplace. You can pop by the local
      Bio-Shop and pick up a genegineered guard dog, which is gene coded
      to your unique DNA. Need new carpeting? We can grow you wall to
      wall in under an hour. Anything that could be dreamed up by the
      Citizens of the Imperium, is eagerly produced by its genegineers.

2352: The first space-faring race is discovered. The Mutumba are a race
      of aquatic octopus-like sentients, using a technology based purely
      on biological organisms. For the first time in the Imperium's history
      an enemy exists which could challenge it's might. In the end, of
      course, the out come was never in doubt. The Imperium has the
      resources of a hundred star systems, the Mutumba only one...

2353: During the turmoil of the Mutumba/Imperium War, Prince Renoir
      murders his mother, the Empress, and assumes the throne. Somethings
      must run in the family. Emperor Renoir I wisely supports the right
      nobility and solidifies his rather shaky reign. The nobility make
      major power grabs during Renoir I's reign.






2354: The Third Beta Uprising tears through the Imperium. Countless
      Betas and Augmented Humans conduct suicide attacks on important
      Citizen political and data storage sights. The entire 5th Wing
      of the Imperium's 2nd Battlgroup defects to the Free Worlds. This
      is the last Beta/Augmented Human Fighter Wing allowed. The
      Espers Liberation Front (ELF, aka Elves) rear their head and
      strike down the rulers of Humanity.

2355: The House of Nobles overthrow Renoir I and crown the Prime
      Minister, Juan DeMarco Cortez. Emperor Juan I has the entire
      DeCalais bloodline hunted down and put to death. This is seen
      as a wise political move, and a subtle warning to the House of
      Nobles about who is really in charge.

2368: The Esper Revolt, led by the Elves, liberates twelve hundred Espers
      from the Corps "detainment" camps. The Imperium sets high bounties
      on the heads of all "rogue" Espers. Bounty Hunting becomes the
      newest way to make a fortune.

2371: The Crystal Palace is destroyed by a nuclear device. Juan I is
      succeeded by his son Juan II. It is never discovered who planted
      the device, or what their political agenda was. Every fringe
      political group, both legal and underground, in the Imperium takes
      credit for the bombing. Even the Esper Corp. is unsuccessful, which
      leads some to suspect the Corp. itself...

2382: Evidence of an ancient system-spanning race comes to light. Some,
      quietly, suggest that this elder race may have achieved greater
      heights than the Imperium. These people find themselves manning
      Survey Teams, to better explore the expanding Imperium...

2396: An experimental "tunable" JumpGate, able to choose its destination,
      is tested in an uninhabited system. The entire star system, and all
      its satellites, simply disappear. Research is transferred from the
      JumpGate Authority to the Defense Ministry.

2403: A city is found which dates back some two hundred and twenty thousand
      years. Its attributed to the Elder Race, as they're now known, and
      excites scientists throughout Humanspace. How a city lasts this long
      is the question on everyone's mind.

2439: Juan II passes away quietly in his sleep, which no one believes, and
      his son Romero is crowned. The new Emperor appeases the House of
      Nobles and looks forward to a long, secure, reign.

2441: The Imperium controls two hundred and fourteen star systems. Five
      races are under its control, counting the Betas as a single race.
      Nexus and Earth are paradises, veritable gardens of engineered
      perfection. The Earth's population is made up of forty million
      Humans and four hundred and thirty six million Betas and Augmented
      Humans. Life is good, as long as you are a Citizen...

2442: Monday, February 3rd... now.