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Author Topic: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube  (Read 6958 times)

Mistwell

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2020, 01:40:11 PM »
I think it's plot driven railroads with set piece combats that people are playing.  That seems to be the underlying assumption behind most of the posts on Enworld at least.  It's not that they're not doing something that might be able to be called a dungeon crawl in some sense, but it's not the old school kind of exploratory dungeon crawl.

In a way WOTC knew their audience with 4E they just marketed it badly and made it overcomplicated and too unfamiliar.

This is for example one of the issues with rests.  People think that 6 combats is too many because that means they have to have six planned encounters to throw at the party that mostly end up being unsatisfactorily easy.  It doesn't seem to occur to them that the players might make the decision about whether to engage in a fight (and that if you can take out a group of potential enemies quickly and efficiently as part of pursuing a player driven goal then that's not a boring combat that's a satisfying step forward).  It's when "bandits attack" and you spend 30 minutes fighting a boring combat for no purpose that it all falls apart.

I play a lot of 5e official adventures. And there is the range you'd expect.

The most popular adventure book has been Curse of Strahd. It's a genuine sandbox adventure. It has some old school elements. Like you can encounter challenges well beyond your level, and they will not be dumbed down to adjust to your level (unless the DM makes an adjustment on their own). It's a combination of mystery, politics, combat, dungeons, and wilderness exploration.

We've been playing through Tales from the Yawning Portal. Which is a series of older adventures, mostly dungeon crawls. I love it. It's been a total blast.

Most recently I've been playing in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. I'd say it most closely hews towards the "plot driven railroads with set piece combats" that you mention. It's heavier on role playing, mystery and politics with some set piece combat. There are still some dungeon crawls, and some exploration (city based). But there seem to be a lot of pre-planned encounters which happen at specific points in the adventure. It does give lots of opportunity to choose who your allies and enemies will be, and it does allow variation in who the villain will be. But for me there's been a tad too much railroading. Fortunately my group knows how to go off the rails pretty well, and it's been very fun despite that bothersome aspect to the adventure (we've already very meaningfully altered the course of the entire city in ways not contemplated by the written adventure which has kept our DM on his toes). And it's the precursor to an extensive mega dungeon adventure. We plan to dive into that adventure while still engaging with the city above, which should break through the last of the railroading left in the city and open it up to a more true sandbox.

I've played some of the earlier published adventures from WOTC, and they also had more of a dungeon crawl element than you might expect.

Importantly, if you look at their adventure sales data through Amazon over time, you find the "plot driven railroads with set piece combats" adventures do not sell as well as the more sandbox-oriented ones. So I don't think the claim that the majority of players are focused on those kinds of adventures is particularly accurate. It's much more varied than that.

And if you think about it, that makes sense. The popular streaming games teach players to do their own thing and "tell their own story." While I might not be a fan of those streams, they're not creating players who like to be railroaded. The sandbox remains alive and thriving under 5e.

Cola

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2020, 08:43:09 PM »
I will be above board and say I hate WOTC’s PC effete worries about race.  Almost an irrational hatred.  OK fully irrational.  I hate their politics and increasingly wonder if I would get cancelled by half of new players and company reps for drawing breath and having opinions in such stark contrast.

That said integrity means being honest in the face of these feelings....

I really like most of Tasha’s....a lot.  The production is just really good.   The suggestions, for patrons or flavor might be old hat for some bad ass grogs.   But for this AD&D player (1e bitch) I was inspired.  I hate to admit it.

I can with the added rules play the undead controlling warlock or ass beating cleric I always wanted.  The feats mean I can stay single classed but add a ton in combination with the players handbook and Xanathar’s and be close to multiclassed.

If you divorce the politics from product, you find a good book.  I am sorry.  Don’t kick me off of the rpg site!  I love the honesty and balls of this place!  Don’t send me to sjw world!  I can dissent there and so but I need to come back here for air and sanity occasionally!

Now...all of that said....this is probably the last book I will buy from them.  Their double talk about race in the front of the book makes me want to gag on my own puke.  They back off of dwarves being hardy due to their blood.  Crawford talks in circles and in direct DIRECT conflict with the players handbook statements about race presumably to avoid offending the Twitter rage pansies.  So too I would assume dwarves are not good vs. poison since that will make someone’s pussy hurt.  I know that is coarse, but wtf?!

So we also have to be bashful about evil drow, orcs and monsters?  They are ashamed to say the typical monster is evil.  Wtaf?  Monsters.  Boogeymen.  Well now they have to have feelings and a good relationship with their kids.  They have become good communicators and in touch with their feelings.

Not long after you have people questioning if killing monsters is problematic (tm).  It’s already begun.

But it’s a good book.  Likely the last I will buy from them, but hey. 


SHARK

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2020, 09:01:05 PM »
I will be above board and say I hate WOTC’s PC effete worries about race.  Almost an irrational hatred.  OK fully irrational.  I hate their politics and increasingly wonder if I would get cancelled by half of new players and company reps for drawing breath and having opinions in such stark contrast.

That said integrity means being honest in the face of these feelings....

I really like most of Tasha’s....a lot.  The production is just really good.   The suggestions, for patrons or flavor might be old hat for some bad ass grogs.   But for this AD&D player (1e bitch) I was inspired.  I hate to admit it.

I can with the added rules play the undead controlling warlock or ass beating cleric I always wanted.  The feats mean I can stay single classed but add a ton in combination with the players handbook and Xanathar’s and be close to multiclassed.

If you divorce the politics from product, you find a good book.  I am sorry.  Don’t kick me off of the rpg site!  I love the honesty and balls of this place!  Don’t send me to sjw world!  I can dissent there and so but I need to come back here for air and sanity occasionally!

Now...all of that said....this is probably the last book I will buy from them.  Their double talk about race in the front of the book makes me want to gag on my own puke.  They back off of dwarves being hardy due to their blood.  Crawford talks in circles and in direct DIRECT conflict with the players handbook statements about race presumably to avoid offending the Twitter rage pansies.  So too I would assume dwarves are not good vs. poison since that will make someone’s pussy hurt.  I know that is coarse, but wtf?!

So we also have to be bashful about evil drow, orcs and monsters?  They are ashamed to say the typical monster is evil.  Wtaf?  Monsters.  Boogeymen.  Well now they have to have feelings and a good relationship with their kids.  They have become good communicators and in touch with their feelings.

Not long after you have people questioning if killing monsters is problematic (tm).  It’s already begun.

But it’s a good book.  Likely the last I will buy from them, but hey.

Greetings!

No worries, Warpiglet! ;D I sympathize with your mixed feelings, and appreciate your honesty and integrity. I don't have this new book, yet, anyways, though your assessment also doesn't surprise me. WOTC has in the past produced beautiful, high-quality books which often include lots of cool and useful things, even inspiring.

Then, like going through your wonderful clean house, and entering the bedroom to see your dog has taken a huge steaming dump on the floor.

That's pretty close to what WOTC has frequently done with a number of past books--and this new one seems to be falling right in line, even more so, with that tradition. Now though it isn't just the bedroom, but also the kitchen, and the den. ;D

I suspect with Jeremy fuckstick being more involved, we will likely see more of such BS as you mention in your comments concerning the work. I imagine, however, gradually so, fewer people will be buying their books as their books mix in higher levels of the stupid train. Honestly, it is sad, because they have so many assets and talented people to create really nice books and supplements for the game.

Thank you again, Warpiglet, for your observations and commentary about the new book, merits and flaws alike.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Cola

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2020, 10:36:07 PM »
Haha @ SHARK  “stupid train” and “fuckstick” made me laugh out loud!

We are in agreement about the state of WOTC I fear.

But the good news is that they have enough content and options that the sheer amount of character options means I could never even try them all as it is.   They can stop printing books now and I would be fine.

Which is good since I doubt I am buying anymore of them.  On some fora they are honestly wringing their hands about killing monsters with impunity. 

Let that sink in.  The destruction of the game is not as far off and insane as I would have ever dreamed.

That said, I have taken it upon myself to call out the crazy whenever I see it.  I am not an argumentative or hateful guy but when they start trying to find reasons to cancel Gygax, make you feel guilty for killing pretend monsters and having the audacity to dissent...it’s time to speak out.  Hopefully someone somewhere will see how fucking crazy stuff is getting. 

Razor 007

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2020, 01:58:52 AM »
I will be above board and say I hate WOTC’s PC effete worries about race.  Almost an irrational hatred.  OK fully irrational.  I hate their politics and increasingly wonder if I would get cancelled by half of new players and company reps for drawing breath and having opinions in such stark contrast.

That said integrity means being honest in the face of these feelings....

I really like most of Tasha’s....a lot.  The production is just really good.   The suggestions, for patrons or flavor might be old hat for some bad ass grogs.   But for this AD&D player (1e bitch) I was inspired.  I hate to admit it.

I can with the added rules play the undead controlling warlock or ass beating cleric I always wanted.  The feats mean I can stay single classed but add a ton in combination with the players handbook and Xanathar’s and be close to multiclassed.

If you divorce the politics from product, you find a good book.  I am sorry.  Don’t kick me off of the rpg site!  I love the honesty and balls of this place!  Don’t send me to sjw world!  I can dissent there and so but I need to come back here for air and sanity occasionally!

Now...all of that said....this is probably the last book I will buy from them.  Their double talk about race in the front of the book makes me want to gag on my own puke.  They back off of dwarves being hardy due to their blood.  Crawford talks in circles and in direct DIRECT conflict with the players handbook statements about race presumably to avoid offending the Twitter rage pansies.  So too I would assume dwarves are not good vs. poison since that will make someone’s pussy hurt.  I know that is coarse, but wtf?!

So we also have to be bashful about evil drow, orcs and monsters?  They are ashamed to say the typical monster is evil.  Wtaf?  Monsters.  Boogeymen.  Well now they have to have feelings and a good relationship with their kids.  They have become good communicators and in touch with their feelings.

Not long after you have people questioning if killing monsters is problematic (tm).  It’s already begun.

But it’s a good book.  Likely the last I will buy from them, but hey.


Feelings.......whoa, whoa, whoa feelings......
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Ghostmaker

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2020, 11:09:48 AM »
I will be above board and say I hate WOTC’s PC effete worries about race.  Almost an irrational hatred.  OK fully irrational.  I hate their politics and increasingly wonder if I would get cancelled by half of new players and company reps for drawing breath and having opinions in such stark contrast.

That said integrity means being honest in the face of these feelings....

I really like most of Tasha’s....a lot.  The production is just really good.   The suggestions, for patrons or flavor might be old hat for some bad ass grogs.   But for this AD&D player (1e bitch) I was inspired.  I hate to admit it.

I can with the added rules play the undead controlling warlock or ass beating cleric I always wanted.  The feats mean I can stay single classed but add a ton in combination with the players handbook and Xanathar’s and be close to multiclassed.

If you divorce the politics from product, you find a good book.  I am sorry.  Don’t kick me off of the rpg site!  I love the honesty and balls of this place!  Don’t send me to sjw world!  I can dissent there and so but I need to come back here for air and sanity occasionally!

Now...all of that said....this is probably the last book I will buy from them.  Their double talk about race in the front of the book makes me want to gag on my own puke.  They back off of dwarves being hardy due to their blood.  Crawford talks in circles and in direct DIRECT conflict with the players handbook statements about race presumably to avoid offending the Twitter rage pansies.  So too I would assume dwarves are not good vs. poison since that will make someone’s pussy hurt.  I know that is coarse, but wtf?!

So we also have to be bashful about evil drow, orcs and monsters?  They are ashamed to say the typical monster is evil.  Wtaf?  Monsters.  Boogeymen.  Well now they have to have feelings and a good relationship with their kids.  They have become good communicators and in touch with their feelings.

Not long after you have people questioning if killing monsters is problematic (tm).  It’s already begun.

But it’s a good book.  Likely the last I will buy from them, but hey.
Bitch please, does this look like forum-dot-rpg-dot-net? Calm down.

The sad part is that a halfway competent GM could assemble an adventure that plugs in shades of grey, involving various nonhumanoid races. Lizardmen are really good for this, btw. You don't need a sourcebook, and this garbage about 'well these races aren't really evil any more' is just silly.

It's even funnier when I recall a bit in Paizo's Second Darkness adventure path, where they talk about how you're not going to see 'good' drow like... ever, because the other drow will initially try to get them therapy (which for me is hilarious on its own) and then if that doesn't work, well... they get killed off.

Cola

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2020, 11:53:22 AM »
Haha very good then.

Yes, it’s almost like some people forget that some negative things in the worlds of fantasy are pretend. 

I also point out that just because a society is messed up does not mean it’s inhabitants are necessarily evil.  Not sure why their panties are in a knot.  We had neutral drow from their inception and good ones since the 80s as well.   Demon worshipping cults that are cruel to their children don’t tend to spawn a ton o faith altruism.  Exceptional individuals can break free but it would be hard.  Nothing at all related to racism per se. 

But where they really jump the shark is where they equate monsters with people.  Fucking trolls which are dumb, eat people.  I have even heard that sharks in our own oceans do things like that as well.  Maybe it’s a species thing vs. racism?  Who knows.

Well they will reap what they sow.  Can you imagine playing in a game in which every band of orcs is just a misunderstood close knit family that is simply longing to be understood?  Oh the thrill of it all....

I like a lot of 5e.  And I have enough to literally last a lifetime.

We played 1e for ages skipped 2e, 3.5 and 4e.  It still holds up and the variability is endless if you create but I am preaching to the choir. 

Have a very strong feeling I will skipping the end of 5e and 6e sjw reinvented too.  But as a working family dude with buddies in the same boat, we still have only begun to mine this edition for what it’s worth. 

When it is my turn to DM though I really need to tone down the healing and try to inject a little more 1e danger into it again...not cause I’m so legit but because challenge is more fun than participation trophies

Ghostmaker

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2020, 12:49:37 PM »
One of the big issues, I've found, is that people forget that things like order, chaos, good and evil are NOT just philosophical concepts in D&D/PF. They're actual universal forces as tangible as gravity.

But things like that establish that there is a cosmic balance in the universe, and progressives don't handle that well (it's the moral relativism issue).

Eric Diaz

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2020, 02:13:42 PM »
I made a thread; post on the subject before reading this. Maybe it could be merged somehow.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/a-rant-on-tasha-5e-and-we-are-not-in-osr-land-anymore/

Anyway, here is the relevant bit:

Tasha requires you to be both an expert in 5e (to be a bit bored with the thousands of existing options) and a novice in RPGs (for including stuff such as "what is session zero", "you can actually TALK to monsters before killing them", or "you know, if your elf character was raised by dwarves, you could give him proficiency with battleaxes instead of longswords (two nearly identical weapons, BTW)"

I'm not sure how to put that... but 5e has become too "official". It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

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Mistwell

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2020, 12:54:22 AM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

jeff37923

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2020, 11:32:24 AM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

Yes, the 97% of brain dead rpg players.
"Meh."

Mistwell

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2020, 05:13:31 PM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

Yes, the 97% of brain dead rpg players.

LOL you think the people who only play D&D are brain dead? Why, you're superior because they often have families and only have time for one game with their old D&D buddies instead of lonely ass you who thinks he's superior for...playing Traveler?

VisionStorm

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2020, 06:22:56 PM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

Yes, the 97% of brain dead rpg players.

LOL you think the people who only play D&D are brain dead?



Why, you're superior because they often have families and only have time for one game with their old D&D buddies instead of lonely ass you who thinks he's superior for...playing Traveler?

Damn, that's a lot of stuff that appears nowhere in Jeff's post, but if those brain dead people have such limited time that they struggle to learn an RPG, then maybe a game that requires them to keep track of dozens of bloated fiddly class features and hundreds of artificially distinct spell entries (half of them dealing with what's essentially a damage effect by a hundred different names) isn't the system for them.

Mistwell

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2020, 07:50:34 PM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

Yes, the 97% of brain dead rpg players.

LOL you think the people who only play D&D are brain dead?



Why, you're superior because they often have families and only have time for one game with their old D&D buddies instead of lonely ass you who thinks he's superior for...playing Traveler?

Damn, that's a lot of stuff that appears nowhere in Jeff's post, but if those brain dead people have such limited time that they struggle to learn an RPG, then maybe a game that requires them to keep track of dozens of bloated fiddly class features and hundreds of artificially distinct spell entries (half of them dealing with what's essentially a damage effect by a hundred different names) isn't the system for them.

Naw man, it's because it's the easiest game to find others to play with, that's all. That doesn't make you brain dead. It just means that's the game you have the most access to in terms of a group to play with.

One of the groups I play with, all our players are highly intelligent. I've played with them for decades. We all have families now, and live in different states, and play online. There is simply zero chance I could get them to play a different game than D&D. D&D just has too many pre-loaded options which work with the online platforms we are used to. And...we love it. Why look for something else when we love what we already have? We've been playing 5e since the beta test in 2012.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 08:29:24 PM by Mistwell »

jeff37923

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Re: Just saw a flipthrough of Tasha's big bucket of unearthed arcana on youtube
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2020, 08:47:45 PM »
It feels like it is written for people who only know and play D&D 5e and nothing else.

You mean, the 97% of all rpg players?

Yes, the 97% of brain dead rpg players.

LOL you think the people who only play D&D are brain dead?



Why, you're superior because they often have families and only have time for one game with their old D&D buddies instead of lonely ass you who thinks he's superior for...playing Traveler?

Damn, that's a lot of stuff that appears nowhere in Jeff's post, but if those brain dead people have such limited time that they struggle to learn an RPG, then maybe a game that requires them to keep track of dozens of bloated fiddly class features and hundreds of artificially distinct spell entries (half of them dealing with what's essentially a damage effect by a hundred different names) isn't the system for them.

Naw man, it's because it's the easiest game to find others to play with, that's all. That doesn't make you brain dead. It just means that's the game you have the most access to in terms of a group to play with.

One of the groups I play with, all our players are highly intelligent. I've played with them for decades. We all have families now, and live in different states, and play online. There is simply zero chance I could get them to play a different game than D&D. D&D just has too many pre-loaded options which work with the online platforms we are used to. And...we love it. Why look for something else when we love what we already have? We've been playing 5e since the beta test in 2012.

Wow, I really struck a nerve there, didn't I?
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