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Author Topic: Just How WEIRD is D&D?  (Read 2214 times)

S'mon

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2022, 02:55:05 AM »
The 5e PHB & DMG made it clear the DM should set the weirdness dials of their setting.
'OC' style play is often based on how weird you can make your special snowflake PC. Organised Play seems to be an influence on this, with people making characters in isolation from any setting/theme. And I think Crawford's determination to make D&D as 'gay' as possible is a factor - a 'no Tieflings' setting would be 'gatekeeping' and 'exclusionary' and other no-nos.

Greentongue

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2022, 06:50:13 AM »
What to do when you are not grounded inside? Bring the mundane into the fantastic: shopping, prom, slice of life... It is almost like a cry for stability.  :( Aww, now I just made myself sad with pop-psychology, empathizing that these are confused, scared people. I am probably wrong and carried the metaphor too far.  :-[
Maybe not so far off the mark?
If people will accept my mega strange character in the game, maybe they will accept me in Real Life?

tenbones

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2022, 11:48:22 AM »
The 5e PHB & DMG made it clear the DM should set the weirdness dials of their setting.
'OC' style play is often based on how weird you can make your special snowflake PC. Organised Play seems to be an influence on this, with people making characters in isolation from any setting/theme. And I think Crawford's determination to make D&D as 'gay' as possible is a factor - a 'no Tieflings' setting would be 'gatekeeping' and 'exclusionary' and other no-nos.

Sounds pretty spot-on. I always need to dial new players back coming in from 5e to my Savage Worlds Realms game from the Snowflake Tier. And I'll be clear, because I don't mind Snowflake concept characters, as long as the player understands the *context* of what it means to be that Snowflake (whatever it is) in my game.

When I hear someone tell me they want to play a Tiefling, I *really* make them understand that "Fear and Loathing" will be the name of the game in Savage Northlands where we're playing. You are TAINTED - whether you had loving parents or not. People might very well want to kill you - because DEVILS ARE EEEEEVIL.

It doesn't mean I won't let you play, or even help create a background for you that may offer some support - but it *will* be in context to the game. This holds true of being an Aasimar, Genasi, Drow, Half-Drow, Half-Orc etc. And to be honest, given today's attitudes, these options sound tame. But you know... I try to keep my cultures "realistic" - and that rubs a lot of the SJW kids wrong.

Though I've only lost one SJW player because of it, heh.

David Johansen

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2022, 02:01:04 PM »
In my "evil kingdoms" 5e campaign things were turned on their heads a bit.  Vampires and cambions were respected noblemen and when the warlock got surrounded by villagers they were chanting "A WITCH!  A WITCH! HORAY! A WITCH!" because warlocks are the lower class folk heroes unlike the evil clerics and wizards that abound in the realm of Trondar.

I find some players just really want to play something weird.  I've heard the "I'm already human, I want to be something different," many times over the years.  Heck, the second time I played D&D I wanted to play a blink dog but the DM wouldn't let me.  Oh well, one more reason I'm a GURPS GM.
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Wrath of God

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2022, 04:03:44 PM »
Yeah, I mean mine long-time team, also embraced weird for D&D like games despite being generally far, far from woke.

For 3,5 games we had weretiger bloodrager, cannibalistic ice halfling, Mulhorandi aasimar cursed into being drow woman, illiterate orc paladin with heavy belief in trial by combat, summoner/bard riding flaming tapir, tactician psion selling people boardgames... and now for planned Realms & Ruins playtest I already have - catfolk gadgeteer, unicorn, human-mushroom mutant, golem assassin.
So yeah. D&D is weird.
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Eirikrautha

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2022, 02:11:11 PM »

Let me guess like the player in my game your Lash Larue would get offended if you told him to play differently or question his choice. Then wonder why the Flesh Golem nearly sent him to negative hit points.
Wow, now there's an ancient reference!  Shows how we *ahem* experienced gamers see the world...

BTW, I actually met Lash Larue at a Western convention when I was a kid...

Redwanderer

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2022, 02:25:52 PM »
Well, isn't the whole game kinda weird? Elves, magic, dungeons, weird monsters- weird.

So isn't it weird vs REALLY weird?  ;D

Rhymer88

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2022, 02:43:26 PM »
Back in the 1980s, my friends and I liked to play a mash-up of AD&D 1e and Gamma World. The setting was completely homebrew, of course, but it certainly enabled a maximum level of weirdness such as a magic-using, green-furred flying dwarf with X-ray eyes. However, as I got older, my tastes turned toward low-magic, historically inspired games, which is why I don't play 5e at all.

Pat

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2022, 06:24:56 PM »
We clearly need a weird meter. Perhaps several axes of weirdness, like Ken Hite's "colors" for describing a super hero world.

Wrath of God

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2022, 10:13:25 PM »
Quote
Well, isn't the whole game kinda weird? Elves, magic, dungeons, weird monsters- weird.

Nah, those are mainstream mundane tired tropes :P

"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

palaeomerus

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2022, 11:39:42 PM »
Well they were still somewhat on the weird side in the 50s before McElf sold 1 million pairs of McBoots and Campbell and bad acid washed the older standards away.
Emery

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2022, 03:57:13 AM »
That's because 50's was era of modernist degeneracy when people in Germanic-sphere forgot their ancient elf-lore. Now it's thankfully restored.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Omega

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2022, 10:54:46 AM »

As an aside, I'm wondering where the freakshow ends? Does the OSR start mutating and adding in all the weird shit? Or does it happen organically with OSR Spelljammer/Planescape as the Plague Ships that bring the freaks to other tents?

It will go in cycles. When anything goes (like 5e now), there is nothing to mark a specific as unique because everyone is unique. Once the character race choice is no longer special, then it will change to how that character race choice can be played - which will make the character unique.

Thats how it was in the TSR era. There would be a slow increase in choices. Then next edition would pare it back down again and start building up again. WOTC has done overall the same. Though 5e is still far far behind any other edition in opening up race selection. So far.

Naburimannu

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #73 on: January 17, 2022, 04:01:24 AM »
Thats how it was in the TSR era. There would be a slow increase in choices. Then next edition would pare it back down again and start building up again. WOTC has done overall the same. Though 5e is still far far behind any other edition in opening up race selection. So far.

This claim surprises me; for example, http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/#toc3 lists 67 current WotC-written races for 5e; it looks like 13 or 14 are unofficial, and 20 are setting-specific, but that still leaves 34 official races in core books. How are you quantifying race variety in other editions?

(Happily, the one player in my new 5e game who wanted to play Harengon asked if it was OK, but it's an explicitly Forgotten Realms kitchen-sink game to make my co-DMs happy, so we said yes.)

VisionStorm

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Re: Just How WEIRD is D&D?
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2022, 06:12:23 AM »
Thats how it was in the TSR era. There would be a slow increase in choices. Then next edition would pare it back down again and start building up again. WOTC has done overall the same. Though 5e is still far far behind any other edition in opening up race selection. So far.

This claim surprises me; for example, http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/#toc3 lists 67 current WotC-written races for 5e; it looks like 13 or 14 are unofficial, and 20 are setting-specific, but that still leaves 34 official races in core books. How are you quantifying race variety in other editions?

(Happily, the one player in my new 5e game who wanted to play Harengon asked if it was OK, but it's an explicitly Forgotten Realms kitchen-sink game to make my co-DMs happy, so we said yes.)

2e had the Complete Book of Humanoids, which had like 25 races, and I believe OD&D had supplements that included Classes for other races beyond Dwarves, Elves or Halflings. So this stuff isn't exactly new.

The difference is that 5e has NINE "common" races out of the gate now, and they include Drow right in the Elf's entry. Back in 2e you had to get Drow of the Underdark, or some later supplements to even get access to them. Now they have a picture of Dritzz right at the start page of the Elf's entry in the PHB.