Quote from: RPGPundit;916313Generally great products. Unfortunately I ran Wilderlands badly the only time I gave it a serious try.

How did you run the Wilderlands badly? Wwas just a bad campaign altogether? Or was it something specific to the Wilderlands?

Quote from: estar;915183Most of the D&D related Judges Guild products are available as PDFs on RPGNow.


City State of the Invincible Overlord is the one that started the line and is a complete city. There is a 3E version that is fleshed out but consistent with the original. Stats are minimal in favor of description text.

Judges Guild has a setting called the Wilderlands of High Fantasy. The original and the 3e version are both available as PDFs on RPGnow. Not the originals don't come with maps.

If I want the original edition non-3E versions of CSIO and WHF and maps, what do I need to buy?

For some of us, the "huge map with shit dribbled all over it" is a feature, not a bug.  I hate trying to invent geography so I'm just as happy to buy some maps and put my own world over them.  Shit like "a Hobbit village of vintners run by rakshasas" is wonderful; give me a weekend and I've got a year's worth of gaming ready to go.

It's from a different age and a different mindset, when we looked for springboards for our imaginations.  I remember years back at Tiny Bolotomus Peckers somebody reviewed the original "BLACKMOOR" D&D supplement and complained that it "didn't tell you how to integrate Monks into your game."

To quote both Dave and Gary, "why would you want us to have all the fun for you?"  Once upon a time, making shit up you thought would be fun, was fun.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916509If I want the original edition non-3E versions of CSIO and WHF and maps, what do I need to buy?

CSIO (1976)
CSIO Revised (1978)
Wilderlands of High Fantasy (maps available through links at the bottom)

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916511For some of us, the "huge map with shit dribbled all over it" is a feature, not a bug.  I hate trying to invent geography so I'm just as happy to buy some maps and put my own world over them.

Which is a fair point. But in an era when I can hit the "Random" button on Hexographer and pop out infinite full-color maps that I can send over to GotPrint.com to be printed up on long-lasting vinyl for a few bucks, the product model hasn't aged well.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916509If I want the original edition non-3E versions of CSIO and WHF and maps, what do I need to buy?

First off I am listing this because there is no old map bundle. The maps done for the boxed sets are accurate reproductions of the original and have every mistake they did.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/2836/Wilderlands-of-High-Fantasy--Map-Pack?hot60=1&src=hottest_filtered&it=1

But if you are willing to pay $2 to $3 a crack for the original 18 maps then you can go to the below link. They start at the bottom of the 2nd page and into the third page.

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?test_epoch=0&page=2

A PDF of the last edition of City-State, Judges Guild sold.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/56309/City-State-of-the-Invincible-Overlord--Revised?manufacturers_id=31

A PDF to the first standalone version of City-State
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/113262/Guide-to-the-City-State-1976?manufacturers_id=31

A PDF to the Initial subscription release of Judges Guild which feature the City State of the Invincible Overlord
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/81990/Initial-Guidelines-Booklet-I-1976?manufacturers_id=31

A PDF to the Second subscription release focusing on Thunderhold
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/133523/Initial-Guidelines-Booklet-J--Thunderhold-1976?manufacturers_id=31

Installment K and M are available as well. As far as I understand they are exactly what a subscriber would have gotten. They print out fairly well too.

The Four level dungeon maps from Installment J
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/92614/Four-Dungeon-Level-Maps-1976?manufacturers_id=31

The Wilderlands of High Fantasy
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/1018/Wilderlands-of-High-Fantasy?manufacturers_id=31&it=1

Fantastic Wilderlands Beyonde
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/1019/Fantastic-Wilderlands-Beyonde-1978?manufacturers_id=31&it=1

There is no PDF of the City State of the World Emperor with the map descriptions but map 6 is available.

Wilderlands of the Magic Realm
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/1019/Fantastic-Wilderlands-Beyonde-1978?manufacturers_id=31&it=1

Wilderlands of the Fantastic Reaches
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/1021/Wilderlands-of-the-Fantastic-Reaches?manufacturers_id=31&it=1

Hope this is what you are looking for.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;916591Which is a fair point. But in an era when I can hit the "Random" button on Hexographer and pop out infinite full-color maps that I can send over to GotPrint.com to be printed up on long-lasting vinyl for a few bucks, the product model hasn't aged well.

Except that the Wilderlands maps were not created by random tables. It a mix of both random results and human design. Something that Hexographer doesn't match which is all random. I realize that I sound defensive but the idea that Wilderlands were a result of careful design is not true as well the idea it being a result of staff rolling random tables. It something in between and the details are a bit of both and the geography is 100% from Bob Bledsaw's imagination.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;916591But in an era when I can hit the "Random" button on Hexographer and pop out infinite full-color maps that I can send over to GotPrint.com to be printed up on long-lasting vinyl for a few bucks, the product model hasn't aged well.

I would rather have something done by a person.

Estar, what is this product?

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/2836/Wilderlands-of-High-Fantasy--Map-Pack?cPath=121_4485&it=1

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916625Estar, what is this product?

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/2836/Wilderlands-of-High-Fantasy--Map-Pack?cPath=121_4485&it=1

The original maps done in a more modern styles for the Wilderlands Boxed Set. They preserve all the details of the old maps including the mistakes. They are also better quality in terms of being a digital product. The digital version of the original maps were done on a two color blueprint scanner at some college. These are from the artist's adobe files.

Note that the original maps two color scan are vastly improved if you apply a slight blur using a photoshop program.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916511For some of us, the "huge map with shit dribbled all over it" is a feature, not a bug.  I hate trying to invent geography so I'm just as happy to buy some maps and put my own world over them.  Shit like "a Hobbit village of vintners run by rakshasas" is wonderful; give me a weekend and I've got a year's worth of gaming ready to go.

It's from a different age and a different mindset, when we looked for springboards for our imaginations.  I remember years back at Tiny Bolotomus Peckers somebody reviewed the original "BLACKMOOR" D&D supplement and complained that it "didn't tell you how to integrate Monks into your game."

To quote both Dave and Gary, "why would you want us to have all the fun for you?"  Once upon a time, making shit up you thought would be fun, was fun.

Then why buy products at all?

As I noted earlier, I've been making up dungeons and realms since I was 11 years old. I've written binders and binders of the stuff. I don't expect someone else to do the work. But I do sometimes want to buy products that do much of the work because I don't have the time on my hands that I had when I was 12 or 22. So the question becomes what work do I want to offload to a product. And I don't want one-paragraph descriptions of towns or forests offloaded, because that's stuff I can do easily myself, and enjoy doing. It's the details I can't be arsed with - the map of the ruined shrine, the description of the bandit leader, the spell list of the high priest. So with a product like the Wilderlands, I'm getting the easy stuff I can come up with myself, and I'm left doing 90 per cent of the work - mostly onerous stuff I don't enjoy.

Quote from: Haffrung;916634So with a product like the Wilderlands, I'm getting the easy stuff I can come up with myself, and I'm left doing 90 per cent of the work - mostly onerous stuff I don't enjoy.

I don't think at any time from anybody I knew promoting the Wilderlands products, including myself, has ever said that every roleplayer would find them equally useful or useful at all. You asked earlier why would they be useful. I explained why. Now you explained why they are not to  you. Which is a reasonable answer. However what true for you is not true for everyone.

Quote from: Haffrung;916634the map of the ruined shrine, the description of the bandit leader, the spell list of the high priest.

As for these items, Judges Guild had other product that covered these. The Village books, the castle books, Fantastic Personalities, random tables,  and so on. While they were not tied to specific locales on the Wilderland maps, they gave the fan of Judges Guild a shopping bag of prepared content that they could pull out and combine to run the campaign they wanted in the area they wanted to run it in.

If you want something as useful for locations but done in a more modern style I suggest you look at the Harn Pottage series on Lythia.com
http://www.lythia.com/series/pottage/

Quote from: Haffrung;916634Then why buy products at all?

I already answered that.  "I hate trying to invent geography."  This product does the thing I hate most.

And the detail stuff like the ruined shrine is the stuff I like doing.

Quote from: estar;916604First off I am listing this because there is no old map bundle. The maps done for the boxed sets are accurate reproductions of the original and have every mistake they did.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/2836/Wilderlands-of-High-Fantasy--Map-Pack?hot60=1&src=hottest_filtered&it=1

But if you are willing to pay $2 to $3 a crack for the original 18 maps then you can go to the below link. They start at the bottom of the 2nd page and into the third page.

http://www.rpgnow.com/browse/pub/31/Judges-Guild?test_epoch=0&page=2

Quote from: estar;916633The original maps done in a more modern styles for the Wilderlands Boxed Set. They preserve all the details of the old maps including the mistakes. They are also better quality in terms of being a digital product. The digital version of the original maps were done on a two color blueprint scanner at some college. These are from the artist's adobe files.

Note that the original maps two color scan are vastly improved if you apply a slight blur using a photoshop program.

I'm sorry if I'm thick, but this confuses me.  I thought you said there was no map bundle, but then you list a map bundle.  Please clarify?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;916678I'm sorry if I'm thick, but this confuses me.  I thought you said there was no map bundle, but then you list a map bundle.  Please clarify?

I misspoke there is a map bundle for the new maps but not for the old scans.

Quote from: estar;916680I misspoke there is a map bundle for the new maps but not for the old scans.

Is it possible to simply, briefly explain the difference?  I'm getting a bit overwhelmed by the sheer volume of detail, and very fuzzy on which product is which.  What I really want is CSIO maps and guidebook, and outdoor maps and keys.