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Author Topic: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"  (Read 5439 times)

RPGPundit

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Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« on: September 16, 2021, 09:36:13 PM »
Jessica Price decides to reveal a whole bunch of dirty laundry from her time working for Paizo on the Pathfinder RPG.  In so doing, she reveals the misery of what being a supposed "industry pro" is really all about.
#pathfinder
#dnd #ttrpg #OSR

NOTE (Retraction): I mistakenly assumed Jessica Price was talking about Jeff Grubb (she referred only to a "jeff" in her Twitter tirade), when in fact it appears she was attacking current Paizo President Jeff Alvarez. My apologies to Mr. Grubb.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 10:35:51 PM by RPGPundit »
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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 09:49:28 PM »
Theosophy permeated the early feminist movement. So if Price is against Theosophy isn't she also against feminism?

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 09:52:10 PM »
Jessica Price decides to reveal a whole bunch of dirty laundry from her time working for Paizo on the Pathfinder RPG.  In so doing, she reveals the misery of what being a supposed "industry pro" is really all about.
#pathfinder
#dnd #ttrpg #OSR



So I read through her essay or me too thing or whatever it's called.

Now it's often said that if you meet assholes all the time maybe you're the asshole. I've always disagreed with this because sometimes people are genuinely surrounded by assholes at work. So I'm going to give this woman half of a benfit of the doubt. My logic behind this is this

There are so many absolute bastards in the costal areas and other SJW hives. I can believe that sexual harassment goes on, I can believe that the male feminists in power use their influence to bully and suppress people. They're all arseholes there. But what SJWs don't have the self awareness to realize is that so often, because everyone is an arsehole. They believe everyone everywhere is an arsehole so they can be an arsehole too because "that's just how people are.". They are incapable of realizing that not only does shit roll down hill. But you can't just push it further down. Because sometimes shit rolls up a hill too and you get covered in it after you thought you were safe.

Like a lot of these Me too or whatever this is sort of things, It's very self centered to make this woman look like a saint surrounded by Sodom. As I said, I can believe a lot of the things mentioned in the whatever it's called. Maybe exaggerated or taken out of context. But I've worked in offices before on creative projects. This sort of thing happens. Offices of creatives often become like High School. With all the bullshit that entails.

But like a lot of SJWs, this woman wants us to forget that she most likely participated in many of the things she has deemed as problematic. She won't tell us herself of course but past behavior is a great predictor for present and future behavior. And these wokeies always think real life is just like Twitter. We've seen her behavior in public. So we know how she can be. She's probably worse in private.

She's also trying to get us to not realize that this entire piece isn't done to actually advance any meaningful change at Paizo but just raise her star and get attention.

TLDR: She's probably lying. She's absolutely a bitch, but so is the industry.

Shasarak

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 10:17:16 PM »
In so doing, she reveals the misery of what being a supposed "industry pro" is really all about.

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 03:15:16 PM »
In my experience, the louder the "male feminist", the more likely that they'll harass/abuse a woman. Most use it as a smokescreen for shitty behavior.
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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2021, 07:56:51 PM »
Brad Walker - sometime poster here, made a rather good point on his blog about WOTC in all this mess:

Quote from: https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2021/09/narrative-warfare-when-enemy-tells-on.html

"Both Stupid Seattle Game Publishers pay no better than any other publisher that can afford to pay at all, and considering Wankers By The Beach has Big Corporate money behind it that's especially galling. ..."

The fact that WOTC pays no better than any other RPG company is a real indication of exactly what the heads of D&D who are secure in their positions really think about the freelancers they hire.

Of all the places outsourcing writing; WOTC should be paying their freelancers on similar scale to writers in other fields.

The fact that they don't is classic 'Kick away the ladder' Pirate Economics behavior by those currently in charge of D&D who were able to gain full-time positions in the gaming industry early in life.

In their heart of hearts they know that they have no special talent or skill. That they are wholly reliant on the D&D logo above their name for their industry cache.

They fear the very idea of having to compete under their own name with the likes of Kevin Crawford, Pundit, or some of their own damn freelancers in anything resembling an open market...

By purposefully paying their freelancers bottom barrel RPG industry rates they are intentionally driving away any potential  talent that could catch the eye of their corporate overlords, or attain any kind of following within current D&D fandom.

IMHO they are literally gatekeeping as much real talent out of the RPG industry as possible by making it far more lucrative for the truly talented to pursue different careers than writing RPGs...


Here's something else to think about:

When was the last time WOTC published a module with only one writers name on the cover?

We know from TSR history and current OSR offerings that it is completely possible for one person to write a complete high quality D&D supplement. Why does everything released for 5e come from an ensemble of writers?


« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 04:05:25 AM by Jaeger »
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therealjcm

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2021, 01:13:59 PM »
Here's something else to think about:

When was the last time WOTC published a module with only one writers name on the cover?

We know from TSR history and current OSR offerings that it is completely possible for one person to write a complete high quality D&D supplement. Why does everything released for 5e come from an ensemble of writers?

I figured that may be driven by the same sort of professional politics that have caused *everyone* who touches any aspect of software during development to be called a "developer" at some companies. Maybe wotc staff all want the glory of a writing credit on an official D&D module. So the editor who changes or re-arranges text, the QA person who suggested an encounter, the artist who added something to the art that wound up in the module - they all get a writing credit if they can manage it.

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2021, 12:28:02 AM »
The fact that they don't is classic 'Kick away the ladder' Pirate Economics behavior by those currently in charge of D&D who were able to gain full-time positions in the gaming industry early in life.

I know absolutely f-all about the RPG industry specifically, but I would be really surprised if this was the main story. At least in my own experience as a manager, cost control is important but so is quality control. So it's not a race to the bottom. You pay what is your best guess the market will bear to get the resources you need to deliver the quality of product you want to deliver - which is good enough, but no better than that.

I suspect the reason WotC pay so absymally is because there are a lot of people willing to take that salary who will deliver product to the level of quality required by WotC.

I am not saying this is a level of quality that you or I might be satisfied with. But then it is not WotC's responsibility to deliver the bestest possible RPG material according to your or my ideas. It is their job to deliver product that is good enough to shift stock.

WotC is a dominant market incumbent and therefore have the power to deliver same-quality product at a higher price point, or worse product at the same price point, as OSR folks. They probably also have some monopsony market power in recruiting (i.e. can pay less for same-quality staff), but that isn't some evil conspiracy, it's just the market structure.

If they were missing their commercial targets their bosses would want answers, and if there was any kind of case to be made that the problem was the product wasn't good enough to sell, then bosses would come down on that like a ton of bricks.

Having said all the above, it is funny how soon their leftist politics go out the window when it comes to paying their staff.
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jhkim

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2021, 03:24:35 AM »
Quote from: https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2021/09/narrative-warfare-when-enemy-tells-on.html
"Both Stupid Seattle Game Publishers pay no better than any other publisher that can afford to pay at all, and considering Wankers By The Beach has Big Corporate money behind it that's especially galling. ..."

IMHO they are literally gatekeeping as much real talent out of the RPG industry as possible by making it far more lucrative for the truly talented to pursue different careers than writing RPGs...
At least in my own experience as a manager, cost control is important but so is quality control. So it's not a race to the bottom. You pay what is your best guess the market will bear to get the resources you need to deliver the quality of product you want to deliver - which is good enough, but no better than that.

I suspect the reason WotC pay so absymally is because there are a lot of people willing to take that salary who will deliver product to the level of quality required by WotC.

I am not saying this is a level of quality that you or I might be satisfied with. But then it is not WotC's responsibility to deliver the bestest possible RPG material according to your or my ideas. It is their job to deliver product that is good enough to shift stock.

I'd split the difference here some. Artistically I'd love it if RPG writers got paid top dollar so the best writers came to write RPG systems and modules. But that's not how capitalism works - so it's not what I would expect of a for-profit company. It's not an invalid business practice to pay workers the going market rate. That means that the best writers are going to go into other fields - because that's what the market says. RPGs have never paid the best compared to other fields, and writers in general tend not to make great money.

Still, companies may be doing specific practices that are bad for authors that don't particularly save money, and that's likely just bad business. Even when paying market rates, companies can attempt to treat their writers as well as reasonable, rather than short-sightedly skimping on them and the work environment.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2021, 11:19:18 AM »
Quote from: https://bradfordcwalker.blogspot.com/2021/09/narrative-warfare-when-enemy-tells-on.html
"Both Stupid Seattle Game Publishers pay no better than any other publisher that can afford to pay at all, and considering Wankers By The Beach has Big Corporate money behind it that's especially galling. ..."

IMHO they are literally gatekeeping as much real talent out of the RPG industry as possible by making it far more lucrative for the truly talented to pursue different careers than writing RPGs...
At least in my own experience as a manager, cost control is important but so is quality control. So it's not a race to the bottom. You pay what is your best guess the market will bear to get the resources you need to deliver the quality of product you want to deliver - which is good enough, but no better than that.

I suspect the reason WotC pay so absymally is because there are a lot of people willing to take that salary who will deliver product to the level of quality required by WotC.

I am not saying this is a level of quality that you or I might be satisfied with. But then it is not WotC's responsibility to deliver the bestest possible RPG material according to your or my ideas. It is their job to deliver product that is good enough to shift stock.

I'd split the difference here some. Artistically I'd love it if RPG writers got paid top dollar so the best writers came to write RPG systems and modules. But that's not how capitalism works - so it's not what I would expect of a for-profit company. It's not an invalid business practice to pay workers the going market rate. That means that the best writers are going to go into other fields - because that's what the market says. RPGs have never paid the best compared to other fields, and writers in general tend not to make great money.

Still, companies may be doing specific practices that are bad for authors that don't particularly save money, and that's likely just bad business. Even when paying market rates, companies can attempt to treat their writers as well as reasonable, rather than short-sightedly skimping on them and the work environment.

It's not about capitalism, it's about having more to show the sharehoilders this quarter than the last and than the same quarter last year.

From a bussiness standpoint, hiring the best you can afford is a good practice, since this means the competition can't have him/her.

Key word: Afford

Thing is the market jugernaut is a cheaskate because it needs to show more profits to the shareholders, which drives the hiring prices down and the really small publishers might not be able to afford to pay much more if at all.

Now, the writters currently working at WotC are stupid and/or talentless, why? because if they weren't they could be making more money self publishing their shit without compatible with 5e logo.

But they have slave mentality, or at least serf mentality, they "deserve" a "living wage", even if their talents or the market say otherwise.
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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2021, 11:39:03 AM »
At least in my own experience as a manager, cost control is important but so is quality control. So it's not a race to the bottom. You pay what is your best guess the market will bear to get the resources you need to deliver the quality of product you want to deliver - which is good enough, but no better than that.

...


I don't know about the economic side of RPGs.  Seems to be a little like US textiles, where the margins are so razor thin at US labor costs, it's hard to do well even if you do everything right.

But speaking of "race to the bottom', that exactly describes the answer to who is really out of control here, Price or the people she tears into?  Why not both?  I'm convinced that a big part of why SJW make such outrageous statements about the nastiness of people in general is because in the circles where they spend most of their time, their accusations are largely true.  It's merely a short step from there to assume their local hell-hole is representative, especially for the evidence and logic impaired.

Aglondir

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2021, 12:46:40 PM »
I keep reading this thread title as "Industry Pros Reveal Pathetic Life of Jessica Price."

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2021, 01:27:42 PM »
I keep reading this thread title as "Industry Pros Reveal Pathetic Life of Jessica Price."
;D
Those 2 things could be simultaneously true.

jhkim

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2021, 01:52:15 PM »
Thing is the market jugernaut is a cheaskate because it needs to show more profits to the shareholders, which drives the hiring prices down and the really small publishers might not be able to afford to pay much more if at all.

Now, the writters currently working at WotC are stupid and/or talentless, why? because if they weren't they could be making more money self publishing their shit without compatible with 5e logo.

I'm not an industry insider, but that doesn't sound right to me. From my personal circles, it seems to me that almost no one is making a living in game self-publishing. Instead, it's a hobby they do on the side of their more regular job - which is part of why it takes so long for indie games to be released. On the other hand, I do know a few people who are making a poor living doing freelance game writing - which generally includes WotC or Paizo or similar. It's a sucky job, but that's more lucrative than something that can't even pay the bills.

Self-publishing means that someone's name is more visible and that they necessarily have to self-promote, but I'm doubtful that on average it pays better than freelance.

Jaeger

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Re: Jessica Price Reveals Pathetic Lives of "Industry Pros"
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2021, 03:31:36 PM »
I suspect the reason WotC pay so absymally is because there are a lot of people willing to take that salary who will deliver product to the level of quality required by WotC.

This is actually a big part of it. There are a lot of lemmings willing to “Starve for their art”…  IMHO a big part of the problem with that is the idea within the hobby that RPGs are “art”.



Having said all the above, it is funny how soon their leftist politics go out the window when it comes to paying their staff.

I am Shocked! Shocked I say!


I'd split the difference here some. Artistically I'd love it if RPG writers got paid top dollar so the best writers came to write RPG systems and modules. …

It’s not about paying top dollar, my point was that even WOTC with big Hasbro bucks, and Magic money behind it doesn’t even come close to paying what the average rates are for writers in other industries.

Although one way to look at it would be that if WOTC started to pay something resembling the average freelancer wage for other industries – that would be top dollar for RPG freelancers.


It's not about capitalism, it's about having more to show the sharehoilders this quarter than the last and than the same quarter last year.

Yes. It is the Harvard business school of parasite economics -  You squeeze all the profit you can regardless of the long term consequences for that quarterly dividend payment, and if things go tits-up you just sail on your golden parachute to the next job, where you promise all new shareholders that you can increase their dividend payment…


From a business standpoint, hiring the best you can afford is a good practice, since this means the competition can't have him/her.

This would be best practice.  Unfortunately, the RPG industry has a few quirks that keep this from becoming a reality. The chief one being D&D’s current ridiculous market share dominance, giving WOTC a virtual monopoly position in the hobby.

The RPG industry was more lucrative for others in the late 80's and 90's when D&D was not the overwhelming juggernaut that it is today.



But speaking of "race to the bottom', that exactly describes the answer to who is really out of control here, Price or the people she tears into?  Why not both? I'm convinced that a big part of why SJW make such outrageous statements about the nastiness of people in general is because in the circles where they spend most of their time, their accusations are largely true.  It's merely a short step from there to assume their local hell-hole is representative, especially for the evidence and logic impaired.

It absolutely is both. Price’s screed is a classic case of eating their own.

You are also right in that these people live in self induced bubbles that they won’t get out of. IMHO, SJW’s are some of the most self-segregating people on earth.

Their statements about the world in general are absolutely a projection of the behavior regularly found within their own SJW communities.

Just look how many accusations of improper behavior come out of their own side.
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