One of the things that really bums me out is this feeling that I can pretty much write off any chance of a Kamigawa D&D book or a 5e update for Arabian Adventures.  I mean, if everything is racist now, how do those get made?

Quote from: Almost_Useless;1135550One of the things that really bums me out is this feeling that I can pretty much write off any chance of a Kamigawa D&D book or a 5e update for Arabian Adventures.  I mean, if everything is racist now, how do those get made?

They don't, is the short answer. MaRo admitted that Kamigawa is the most-requested "return to" set even prior to Theros, i.e. before shit really hit the fan, and WotC wouldn't do it. If you want Kamigawa in 5e or anywhere else, DIY. The bad news is, the lore novels are pretty bad. But if you can slog through them, or just lean on the cards, I suspect the payoff is worth it. (And I volunteer as tribute to help you test any content. )

Quote from: Spinachcat;11355485e lost me as a player during the playtest because I couldn't find a reason to play that game as it offered me nothing as a GM or player that I can't get from other RPGs, but WotC lost me as a customer when they went full retard, which occurred mostly after 2016 with the TDS virus. But the dumb was rumbling in WotC during 4e, just nowhere like today as the Overton Window has shifted so much in the past 4 years.

I am not really one for blanket boycotts.  Mostly I just buy the stuff that interests me.

If you want to buy things from true creatives then you just have to accept that you are going to be getting at least some amount of crazy mixed up in it.  Thats just the way that it works.

If WotC produces something I really want, I would buy it off eBay. That's how I deal with Paizo or Green Ronin. But other than Paizo's really excellent cardboard figures for convention travel, I haven't seen anything worth my money. Then there's the issue of me being the GM. Why would I want to promote the work of people who hate me? Especially when I can just run something else, equal or better, created by people who don't hate me?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135542Do you ever quit being disingenuous?

My comment has a context, meaning IF WotC goes full in woke AND D&D fails in popularity, THEN older editions will be more popular.

If that was your context, you appear to have wanted people to read your mind. You didn't SAY anything like those things. You appeared to be speaking in present-tense, and as the entire thread is present-tense, I have no idea why you thought there was some obvious implied "If" in any of what you said. At least, not how I read it. Have you considered the possibility you didn't communicate what you meant to communicate?

Quote from: Spinachcat;11355485e lost me as a player during the playtest because I couldn't find a reason to play that game as it offered me nothing as a GM or player that I can't get from other RPGs

Sure that's a legit complaint for when it was released.

Quotebut WotC lost me as a customer when they went full retard, which occurred mostly after 2016

I mean, really? Are you really saying you were a still an active customer in 2015? I think they lost you before that happened.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1135547First of all, I've never particularly liked Pundit or trusted his judgment. Second, we were already seeing the explicit celebration of alternative sexuality and the anger at anyone who dared express qualms about it when the Basic Set was released.

This? (From the 2015 version before they removed the consultants names)

QuoteYou don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex
and gender. The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen
as androgynous, for example, and some elves in the
multiverse are made in Corellon's image. You could also
play a female character who presents herself as a man,
a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded
female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male.
Likewise, your character's sexual orientation is for you
to decide.

Its just stating the obvious rather than leaving it implied. Some blew up over it due to other virtue signalling back then. But when you look at it, its just another case of using alot of words to say very little. "Anythings possible"

Lets not forget that some versions of TSR era games had chargen examples of players creating characters opposite their gender.

Quote from: Mistwell;1135574I mean, really? Are you really saying you were a still an active customer in 2015? I think they lost you before that happened.

I was an active 4e customer, then a 5e internal playtest DM, then not a 5e customer, but I was open to seeing what else WotC might produce. Before WotC went full retard, I would have bought 5e Star Frontiers or 5e Gamma World or 5e Planescape if they were good games. Now, they'd have to be great games...and I'd buy them secondhand. Same with any of WotC's boardgames or cardgames.

But considering where we are today in the culture war, I am looking at my DMing choices. AKA, if I am going to promote someone else's work, why should I ever promote someone who hates me? Especially since this isn't 1980 with a dozen RPG choices on the market. It's 2020 and I have a gazillion choices, old and new.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1135583I was an active 4e customer, then a 5e internal playtest DM, then not a 5e customer, but I was open to seeing what else WotC might produce. Before WotC went full retard, I would have bought 5e Star Frontiers or 5e Gamma World or 5e Planescape if they were good games. Now, they'd have to be great games...and I'd buy them secondhand. Same with any of WotC's boardgames or cardgames.

But considering where we are today in the culture war, I am looking at my DMing choices. AKA, if I am going to promote someone else's work, why should I ever promote someone who hates me? Especially since this isn't 1980 with a dozen RPG choices on the market. It's 2020 and I have a gazillion choices, old and new.

My timeline and game interests are different, but otherwise, this is where I'm at.  

When I started seriously working with my own game design again (as opposed to fiddling with them in spare moments), it never crossed my mind that the driving force to finish it would be, "Have a game I like that isn't made by someone that hates me."  Don't get me wrong.  The main reason to do it is to have a game that does something a little different than what I can buy, so that I can more easily run the kind of game that I want.  Which has nothing to do with anyone else, except insomuch as no one else is producing a game to match my rather niche tastes.  But a reason for wanting it done (wanting to have it) and the motivations to work hard and finish it, don't always line up 100%.

I want to own a game where if it is screwed up, the screw ups are my own fault, and thus can be fixed by me with my priorities and my sensibilities.  If you want something done right, do it yourself.

Quote from: Mistwell;1135573If that was your context, you appear to have wanted people to read your mind. You didn't SAY anything like those things. You appeared to be speaking in present-tense, and as the entire thread is present-tense, I have no idea why you thought there was some obvious implied "If" in any of what you said. At least, not how I read it. Have you considered the possibility you didn't communicate what you meant to communicate?

Maybe, because as I say in that comment you're quote mining, I'm responding to someone? As in their comment is what provides the context?

But do go ahead and keep on being a disingenuous twat. I'm done with you.

Edited to add the proof you're quote mining my comment because you're a disingenuous twat:

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1135542Do you ever quit being disingenuous?

My comment has a context, meaning IF WotC goes full in woke AND D&D fails in popularity, THEN older editions will be more popular.

If you read what I was answering to you know this and are just a lying scumbag.

If you didn't read what I was answering to then you're just dumb.

Second edit to add the context:

https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42208-Jeremy-Crawford-on-D-amp-D-Races-Going-Forward&p=1135448&viewfull=1#post1135448

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1135610it never crossed my mind that the driving force to finish it would be, "Have a game I like that isn't made by someone that hates me."

It's absolutely crazy that we've gotten here!

I wish I loved DCC or C&C because those publishers seem to just want to please customers and build a positive fan community. Palladium won't fall to this ideological nonsense, but the company barely exists and the fanbase has crumbled. Which is a damn shame because the Palladium Open House conventions are some of the absolute best RPG events I've attended.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1135610I want to own a game where if it is screwed up, the screw ups are my own fault, and thus can be fixed by me with my priorities and my sensibilities.  If you want something done right, do it yourself.

Exactly. I enjoy the writing & design process and I've enjoyed basic layout in the past so its not a burden. Of course, getting players for a new game is an obstacle, but handing out a free book to everybody in your group works wonders.  Merry Christmas, this is our next campaign!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1135669It's absolutely crazy that we've gotten here!

I wish I loved DCC or C&C because those publishers seem to just want to please customers and build a positive fan community. Palladium won't fall to this ideological nonsense, but the company barely exists and the fanbase has crumbled. Which is a damn shame because the Palladium Open House conventions are some of the absolute best RPG events I've attended.

I couldn't get into DCC for some reason. C&C I keep going back to run because I have a ton of stuff for it, it's quick and easy to get characters together and the game started, but it doesn't scratch the itch nearly as well as Old Palladium, WFRP (1st or 2nd), or Alternity does for the wife and I.

Quote from: Mistwell;1134249Jeremy Crawford's comments on the direction races are taking going forward in D&D.

The short of it: They're slowly heading towards treating all things which are labeled "humanoid" to drop Intelligence debuffs and the mandatory evil alignment, like orcs, drow, and Vistani (which is a gypsy analogue in Ravenloft) as being on their radar for some changes that recognized a wider range of morality, or "Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls."

They will likely also reclassify some "humanoids" in the monster manual like Gnolls to be "Fiends" and keep the mandatory evil alignment, as that aspect is directly sourced from "spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat". Maybe similar for minotaurs. But if a particular setting does not use that type of origin story for something like gnolls, it might keep them as humanoid but without the mandatory evil alignment.

I don't have to buy the new version. I LIKE MY ORCS EVIL! If orcs aren't evil, you don't get to kill them as often and take their treasure!

In the next version of D&D, the only villains allowed in the game will white heterosexual males from male dominated, colonial societies. There will, therefore, be no need for a Monster Manual. Wizards of the Coast will instead publish Danathar's Guide to Diversity, in which a great many "progressive" societies are detailed, but you'll ever only need to read exactly one of them because they'll all be precisely identical. At lower levels, the game will be about killing all the aforementioned white males and taking their stuff. At epic levels, it'll be about finding Progressives that transgress the Grand and Blessed Church of Purity in some extremely minor way, and utterly destroying their lives.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1135732In the next version of D&D, the only villains allowed in the game will white heterosexual males from male dominated, colonial societies. There will, therefore, be no need for a Monster Manual. Wizards of the Coast will instead publish Danathar's Guide to Diversity, in which a great many "progressive" societies are detailed, but you'll ever only need to read exactly one of them because they'll all be precisely identical. At lower levels, the game will be about killing all the aforementioned white males and taking their stuff. At epic levels, it'll be about finding Progressives that transgress the Grand and Blessed Church of Purity in some extremely minor way, and utterly destroying their lives.

Epic.