I love Tomb of Horrors. It's supposed to be a mega-challenge and not something you just march through in a game session. It's effectively a mini-campaign, not an evening of laid back beer and pretzels. But it's not for every group. As always, know your players.

As far as I understand it, Tomb of Horrors was meant for Convention Tournament play:  to separate the wheat from the chaff.  I kind of wish I had been there to experience it as intended.  It was unapologetic in it's deadly purpose.  I can imagine the excitement and competitiveness various groups playing there felt, seeing how far everyone got before TPK.  Any group surviving it would wear that accomplishment like a badge of honour.  Besting Gygax's killer dungeon would give one a lot of free beers no doubt from the fallen, coupled with many questions of how they managed to finish the module.

Contrary to some opinions, I feel it is one of the ultimate player teamwork modules.  If the players decide to run off and do their own thing, they're dead.  As a DM I would not gloat over the player's death, but leave it as something to gnaw away at them, knowing that they will be hard pressed to resist returning to try another day.  I feel there has to be at least one area in a campaign that is verboten for the players, to occasionally humble them if they are feeling a little too heroic and confident at times.

Despite how one may feel about TOH, there was enough memorable moments about it to sustain many expansions on the legend.  I admit, anything tied into the storyline always gets a second look from me.

The other 'S' series modules weren't a walk in the park either.  Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ended up killing the party I was part of when we decided to wrangle with the exercise robots and got trounced hard.  Knowing nothing about what were were getting into and seeing unearthly science fiction elements as we bumbled around with swords and shields was a real mind trip for our group, weaned on more traditional dungeon crawls.  Was so hard not to metagame though.


On the vexing situation of players decking out their characters dragging on, I also feel players sometimes overthink their equipment as they micromanage.  Just don't show them Gygax's pole-arm lists to choose from or you'll never get the game going.  Maybe just start the story with the players washed up on an island with little to no items.  Watch them go all 'Survivor' as they barter and fight each other for the best weapons.  The monsters won't have to worry 'cause they'll end up being their own worst enemies.  Heh

This is where it can be good to start with "cultural weapons."

"Ah, you're a Roman legionary. So you have a long tunic, boots, cloak, mail, large shield, shortsword and spear for battle. To carry around you have a long pole with attached spare tunic, rations, a pot, spade, and two wooden stakes."

"So you're a Saxon warrior. You're only 1st level so you have tunic and trews, boots, medium shield, a helm which gives +1 to AC, a shortsword and spear. Roll 1d6, if you roll 1-3 that's it, roll 4-5 you have leather armour, and roll 6 and you have mail."

"You're a monk. You have robes and sandals. You can find a stick."

Pick one from column 1, two from column 2, three from column 3...and we're done.

I should design that for OD&D.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1134774I love Tomb of Horrors. It's supposed to be a mega-challenge and not something you just march through in a game session. It's effectively a mini-campaign, not an evening of laid back beer and pretzels. But it's not for every group. As always, know your players.

All the S Series are like that.  Legends and Myths your characters have heard of, and end up going after or getting involved in.  S1-4, every one of them is a damn meat grinder.  Very few people come out of any one of those modules without at least one permadeath if not a TPK.  Every single one of them is also worth it, for the bragging rights and sense of accomplishment if nothing else.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1134791This is where it can be good to start with "cultural weapons."

"Ah, you're a Roman legionary. So you have a long tunic, boots, cloak, mail, large shield, shortsword and spear for battle. To carry around you have a long pole with attached spare tunic, rations, a pot, spade, and two wooden stakes."

"So you're a Saxon warrior. You're only 1st level so you have tunic and trews, boots, medium shield, a helm which gives +1 to AC, a shortsword and spear. Roll 1d6, if you roll 1-3 that's it, roll 4-5 you have leather armour, and roll 6 and you have mail."

"You're a monk. You have robes and sandals. You can find a stick."

Soulbound does something like that, with each PC having an archetype and each archetype starting with a small set of assigned gear. Beyond that, you get a small amount of spending money to customize, but gear selection should be finished in just a few short minutes (and all of character creation in about 15-20 minutes).

Quote from: jhkim;1132951Yeah, I'm with this. The overall message of the video is "These spoiled brats today don't know how to have fun properly. They need to play the way that *I* play, then they'd really have fun." Like some old man trying really hard to convince kids that checkers is more fun than their Nintendo.

Incidentally, while "It was all a dream" is usually a bad idea, I do have a great fondness both for the original AD&D Ravenloft module as well as its sequel "Ravenloft II: The House on Gryphon Hill." The latter uses "it was all a dream" to good effect -- in keeping with gothic horror traditions.

Woah. Woah. Let's not  ring checkers into this discussion

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1134791This is where it can be good to start with "cultural weapons."

"Ah, you're a Roman legionary. So you have a long tunic, boots, cloak, mail, large shield, shortsword and spear for battle. To carry around you have a long pole with attached spare tunic, rations, a pot, spade, and two wooden stakes."

"So you're a Saxon warrior. You're only 1st level so you have tunic and trews, boots, medium shield, a helm which gives +1 to AC, a shortsword and spear. Roll 1d6, if you roll 1-3 that's it, roll 4-5 you have leather armour, and roll 6 and you have mail."

"You're a monk. You have robes and sandals. You can find a stick."

not a bad idea, might steal it for my totally not Conan game

Quote from: Spinachcat;1134792Pick one from column 1, two from column 2, three from column 3...and we're done.

I should design that for OD&D.

might work if you keep the columns short

Quote from: Spinachcat;1134792Pick one from column 1, two from column 2, three from column 3...and we're done.

I should design that for OD&D.

I'm listening ...

This was an interesting discussion of Anglo-Saxon gear.

https://www.heroicage.org/issues/6/devingo.html

Our ideas of Anglo-Saxon helms are based on... four surviving examples. Obviously there are other sources, but when you look into historical stuff, it's amazing on what a thin foundation most of our understanding sits. So with gear, culture or whatever, if you just go with what seems reasonable to you, then you probably won't be any further off than professional historians.