How much does Japanese media influence your campaigns? Their story, their characters, their world, and so on. In that vein, how does Japanese media influence your players and their PCs? And what specific titles do you select ideas from?
I pick from mostly anime and manga: Digimon (monster catching), Shin Megami Tensei (religious beings, law and chaos), Berserk (respectful depiction of the outcomes of sexual assault (with player consent of course), giant swords, CLANG), Xenoseries (giant robots, science focus, robot girls)
Japan has a rich cultural history and a medieval period that lends itself to a similar type of fantasy gaming as medieval Europe. And that's both good and bad - if you incorporate individual elements into a faux-European environment, you lose what makes it unique. Katanas can exist alongside zweihanders, but it's just another sword without culture.
While a lot of fantasy worlds include a fantasy Asia, often it exists separately from the 'default area' that is more medieval. It makes sense to adventure in one or the other, but not usually both. It's normal to have characters from one region or the other, but not to have a mixed party
Personally, I think that works best. If you play a western RPG all the players understand the type of society and characters thar are appropriate. If you play a Japanese inspired game, you should commit in a similar way. It can still be FANTASY - it doesn't have to be realistic or historical, but being clear about the theme allows players to engage in the world in a consistent way.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 10, 2022, 06:21:18 PM
Japan has a rich cultural history and a medieval period that lends itself to a similar type of fantasy gaming as medieval Europe. And that's both good and bad - if you incorporate individual elements into a faux-European environment, you lose what makes it unique. Katanas can exist alongside zweihanders, but it's just another sword without culture.
While a lot of fantasy worlds include a fantasy Asia, often it exists separately from the 'default area' that is more medieval. It makes sense to adventure in one or the other, but not usually both. It's normal to have characters from one region or the other, but not to have a mixed party
Personally, I think that works best. If you play a western RPG all the players understand the type of society and characters thar are appropriate. If you play a Japanese inspired game, you should commit in a similar way. It can still be FANTASY - it doesn't have to be realistic or historical, but being clear about the theme allows players to engage in the world in a consistent way.
I was referring to Japanese popular culture, but your post is good on its own!
Unless I'm playing/running an anime inspired game not at all. If yes it depends on the type of setting, and I NEVER depict rape nor would I play in a game that does.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 10, 2022, 06:21:18 PM
Japan has a rich cultural history and a medieval period that lends itself to a similar type of fantasy gaming as medieval Europe. And that's both good and bad - if you incorporate individual elements into a faux-European environment, you lose what makes it unique. Katanas can exist alongside zweihanders, but it's just another sword without culture.
While a lot of fantasy worlds include a fantasy Asia, often it exists separately from the 'default area' that is more medieval. It makes sense to adventure in one or the other, but not usually both. It's normal to have characters from one region or the other, but not to have a mixed party
Personally, I think that works best. If you play a western RPG all the players understand the type of society and characters thar are appropriate. If you play a Japanese inspired game, you should commit in a similar way. It can still be FANTASY - it doesn't have to be realistic or historical, but being clear about the theme allows players to engage in the world in a consistent way.
Bolded what I want to address.
While I do agree that having Katanas in pseudo medieval Europe losses all the meaning of the sword. I think that, without falling into Gonzo or "because Dragons!" there's a perfectly fine way to include a character of one in the other and even to have it be a part of the party:
It's the "Fish out of water" trope, if the players are mature enough and capable of playing it as that then it lends itself to very good roleplaying.
A Yankee in the Court of King Arthur.
The Last Samurai
Both are examples of this trope to some extent, played for shit and giggles to a point in the first one and in the second the character ends up assuming the culture as his own.
Everybody can play whatever and however they want, just wanted to point out the possible lost oportunity.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 10, 2022, 07:15:38 PM
Unless I'm playing/running an anime inspired game not at all. If yes it depends on the type of setting, and I NEVER depict rape nor would I play in a game that does.
That's okay.
It's pretty common to have humanoid mecha in sci fi these days, even if they don't pull any other Japanese pop culture references.
Likewise the Really Big Gun on capital ships or flagships.
Also, I was a big fan of the Teenagers from Outer Space RPG back in the day.
I've run Space Battleship Yamato using Traveller. Record of Lodoss War is the manga/anime retelling of the author's D&D game.
My games have been influenced by a lot of anime and manga. Right off the top of my head - Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, Ruin Explorers, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gundam (a lot, but not all), Cowboy Bebop, Patlabor, Macross (some but not all), Wings of Honneamaise, Evangelion, Samurai X, Goblin Slayer, Samurai Champloo, Akira, The Weathering Continent, plus a bunch of shorts by Katsuhiro Otomo.
I have to admit, some of the stuff I watch with the family just wouldn't really work in a RPG setting. Shows like Genshiken, Comic Party, The Quintessential Quintuplets, Your Name, Belle, A Whisker Away, My Roommate is a Cat, and the Miyazaki films we like.
None of us think that isekai would be fun to play as a RPG session.
EDIT: I'm a big fan of Mekton and Cyberpunk 2020 - R. Talsorian Games had winners with those and the anime/manga influence is huge in them.
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 10, 2022, 07:40:11 PM
Also, I was a big fan of the Teenagers from Outer Space RPG back in the day.
Teenagers From Outer Space still rocks this family!
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 10, 2022, 08:27:16 PM
I've run Space Battleship Yamato using Traveller. Record of Lodoss War is the manga/anime retelling of the author's D&D game.
My games have been influenced by a lot of anime and manga. Right off the top of my head - Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, Ruin Explorers, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gundam (a lot, but not all), Cowboy Bebop, Patlabor, Macross (some but not all), Wings of Honneamaise, Evangelion, Samurai X, Goblin Slayer, Samurai Champloo, Akira, The Weathering Continent, plus a bunch of shorts by Katsuhiro Otomo.
I have to admit, some of the stuff I watch with the family just wouldn't really work in a RPG setting. Shows like Genshiken, Comic Party, The Quintessential Quintuplets, Your Name, Belle, A Whisker Away, My Roommate is a Cat, and the Miyazaki films we like.
None of us think that isekai would be fun to play as a RPG session.
EDIT: I'm a big fan of Mekton and Cyberpunk 2020 - R. Talsorian Games had winners with those and the anime/manga influence is huge in them.
Wow. You have really good taste. I should check those out.
Cyberpunk games (2.0.2.0. & Shadowrun specifically) were already heavily influenced by manga, so it's only natural to continue to draw from those sources when you play those campaigns.
Other than that, I generally find influence from plenty of real world cultures when designing a setting. For example, in a 3.5 game I ran about 17 years ago, the dwarves' honor code was modeled after Bushido, and their ancestor worship borrowed heavily from Shinto-buddism. Small stone statues of squat dwarves (evoking images of the Buddha) were both symbolic and literal representations of Dwarven ancestors since their ashes were mixed into the mortar made to sculpt the statues. Cremation ceremonies also tied in nicely with the dwarves' love of forges. They didn't use katanas or anything, but their militaristic society would have been recognized by any shogun.
Depends on the setting and system.
D&D allowed for it right out the gate as you could play a fighter as a knight in shining armor, a axe wielding barbarian, a swawhbuckling fencer, or a samurai warrior and so on.
Other settings are more, or less, flexible. If only because they lack any equivalent to the orient.
Much like Jeff above we used Star Frontiers to run Yamato type space epics and at Gen Con there was an annual Star Frontiers/Yamato space battle played with the old model kits from the series. We also had a short lives Ulysse 31 campaign.
For fantasy settings I've introduced various monsters from the orient. And weapons converted over as needed. Can be alot of fun and keeps the players on their toes.
It is much the same as say Greek mythology influences in a campaign. See my above mention of Ulysse 31 for a Star Frontiers campaign.
I ran some Bushido in the late 80s and tried to stick to the culture as much as possible.
Unfortunately, some of the best examples for samurai type campaigns are some of the (somewhat cheesy) Japanese samurai television shows of the 70s-90s, and those shows are really hard to find outside of Japan. Mito-Komon is a very good one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHN2pF6nuAU). The Shogun's retired uncle travels around with a small troop of helpers, find out injustices and then reveals himself, bring the bad guys to justice. Shows like that really demonstrate the sort of things you can leave out without losing the samurai vibe.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 10, 2022, 08:27:16 PM
I've run Space Battleship Yamato using Traveller. Record of Lodoss War is the manga/anime retelling of the author's D&D game.
My games have been influenced by a lot of anime and manga. Right off the top of my head - Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, Ruin Explorers, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gundam (a lot, but not all), Cowboy Bebop, Patlabor, Macross (some but not all), Wings of Honneamaise, Evangelion, Samurai X, Goblin Slayer, Samurai Champloo, Akira, The Weathering Continent, plus a bunch of shorts by Katsuhiro Otomo.
I have to admit, some of the stuff I watch with the family just wouldn't really work in a RPG setting. Shows like Genshiken, Comic Party, The Quintessential Quintuplets, Your Name, Belle, A Whisker Away, My Roommate is a Cat, and the Miyazaki films we like.
None of us think that isekai would be fun to play as a RPG session.
EDIT: I'm a big fan of Mekton and Cyberpunk 2020 - R. Talsorian Games had winners with those and the anime/manga influence is huge in them.
Speaking of Miyazaki, Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke, and Howl's Moving Castle might actually make good settings as there is plenty of conflict. I would like to say Castle in the Sky as well, but a lot of the broader conflict seems implied offscreen rather than explicitly outlined in the movie.
My first ever RPG game was anime. Palladium Books RoboTech Macross.
I still love Mecha to this day. I'll get around to playing Tiny D6 Mecha Vs Monsters 2 when it finally is released. Hopefully very soon.
Even my superhero is a Mecha pilot. A sort of Cyclone style transforming motorcycle, but mine has a sword. Again, using Tiny D6 rules, in this case their Super Hero game. Armored-1, Superspeed-1, and the normal shield trait (front wheel is a left arm shield in robot mode).
I used ti love anime, but that's faded since the early 90s. These days, I find most anime influences to be a negative, unless the game is specifically intended to be an anime-based game. In the latter case, I just skip it. Not judging, just a matter of personal tastes.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 11, 2022, 03:59:53 AM
I used ti love anime, but that's faded since the early 90s. These days, I find most anime influences to be a negative, unless the game is specifically intended to be an anime-based game. In the latter case, I just skip it. Not judging, just a matter of personal tastes.
Theres been a swing over the decades from ultra violence to more tame stuff and back to ultra violence as people get bored of too much of one or the other.
Likable female characters would be the big one.
Quote from: S'mon on August 11, 2022, 10:07:18 AM
Likable female characters would be the big one.
How is that a Japanese thing?
I'd like a setting made of French illustrators, Japanese monsters, and pulp-era American protagonists.
Think Moebius plus Dark Souls plus Conan. Or John Carter in a Druillet world with bloodborne foes.
(But, other than that, Berserk and Souls games are a big influence).
James Clavell "Shogun" series of books was a boiler plate on how to run Japenese scenarios mixed with classical European Fantasy.
I've converted many of the traditional european races to be more asian-centric in my campaign for a mix of cultures (gnomes=korean, hobgoblins=japanese, dwarves=chinese, etc.) to spice things up.
Quote from: Effete on August 10, 2022, 09:00:35 PM
Cyberpunk games (2.0.2.0. & Shadowrun specifically) were already heavily influenced by manga, so it's only natural to continue to draw from those sources when you play those campaigns.
And that was before
Ghost in the Shell, which was a gateway into cyberpunk for a lot of people too young to have experienced the original literary movement in the 1980s. And for a lot of people, Shirow's imagery and themes are a permanent part of cyberpunk.
I picked up Goblin Slayer: a Japanese game mechanic TRPG, overseen and directly contributed to by the author of the manga, so figure it doesn't get more influenced than that. :)
I like the look of the older stuff like Robotech, Starblazers, Golgo 13, and sometimes mine them for ideas.
Still amazes me how futuristic Ghost in the Shell still looks for '89: they really captured that weather-beaten, glistening cyber-tech look perfectly. I swear the main heroine's look and attitude is Molly Millions in disguise (a least how I pictured her reading Gibson)
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 11, 2022, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: S'mon on August 11, 2022, 10:07:18 AM
Likable female characters would be the big one.
How is that a Japanese thing?
You havent watched any then.
Theres plenty. Sailor Moon is not one of them. aheh.
But thats a problem with more than a few US cartoons too.
Old Manga or Anime 90s horror style would be the biggest influence when it comes to Japanese stuff for RPGs. I always like their gnarly demons and epic storylines.
Not so fond of the sleazy stuff. My brain just ignores that...
I still watch a lot of anime and read manga. I generally prefer their brand of story telling. I used to buy a LOT of comics, but they have gone to crap for the most part. So, it's natural that there is some bleed over into my gaming.
Japanese pop culture has zero influence on the vast majority of my gaming. Most of my RPG gaming is Western medieval influenced (and Western swords-n-sorcery or fantasy fiction like Howard, Leiber, Merritt, Tolkien, et al.), although I also enjoy gaming inspired or influenced by ancient Rome, Greece, etc.
However, I've run some very fun Bushido games. My influences there would be things like actual history, Clavell's Shogun novel, and Kurosawa films. I guess the Kurosawa films could be considered pop culture.
Greetings!
Yeah, Japanese Pop Culture is pretty much a non-starter for me. Zero influence.
I am much more primarily focused on Western European, Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, the Slavs, the Germanic tribes, the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages. Classical Medieval eras.
Secondarily, I am influenced by the cultures, history, and mythology of Ancient India and Ancient China.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
That explains a lot, I play a urban fantasy, horror, sci-fi, as well as other indie stuff with an eye towards solo play. I have more medieval fantasy on my to-do list and that is all Appendix N inspired [specifically stuff like Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser or The Princess Bride.]
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on August 11, 2022, 02:42:19 PM
I like the look of the older stuff like Robotech, Starblazers, Golgo 13, and sometimes mine them for ideas.
Sunrise Animation really hits an aesthetic sweet spot for me. Particularly their 1980s stuff. But even their recent stuff that has shown up on Netflix is gorgeous looking, even if the story is weak.
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on August 11, 2022, 02:42:19 PM
Still amazes me how futuristic Ghost in the Shell still looks for '89: they really captured that weather-beaten, glistening cyber-tech look perfectly. I swear the main heroine's look and attitude is Molly Millions in disguise (a least how I pictured her reading Gibson)
That's an interesting observation. I never made any kind of connection between Molly and Kusanagi, mainly because I read Neuromancer long before Ghost in the Shell came out.
More interesting are the influences of western fantasy on Japanese fantasy. Even today I spot fantasy anime with the classic O/A/BX style dog-men Kobolds and even the occasional boar headed Orcs and so on. Clerics turning undead. Western style dragons. and so on.
Quote from: Omega on August 12, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
More interesting are the influences of western fantasy on Japanese fantasy. Even today I spot fantasy anime with the classic O/A/BX style dog-men Kobolds and even the occasional boar headed Orcs and so on. Clerics turning undead. Western style dragons. and so on.
Ever since
Record of Lodoss War, anime and manga have been influenced by Western fantasy.
Japanese video games and anime have had a strong influence on Western fantasy and pop culture.
For instance, the image of the fighter with a "buster sword" from things like Berserk, Escaflowne, and Final Fantasy 7 has been widely duplicated in Western fantasy, particularly in comics.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 12, 2022, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: Omega on August 12, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
More interesting are the influences of western fantasy on Japanese fantasy. Even today I spot fantasy anime with the classic O/A/BX style dog-men Kobolds and even the occasional boar headed Orcs and so on. Clerics turning undead. Western style dragons. and so on.
Ever since Record of Lodoss War, anime and manga have been influenced by Western fantasy.
They were before that too. Or at least european mythologies. Alot of Greek themed stuff pops up in early anime. Japan has always loved adapting western stuff. Ozamu for example did Animal Treasure Island way before. I have a beat up old copy of it still somewhere I hope. Its foreign, which makes it potentially exotic. The flip side of going the traditional monster routes.
Lots of potential fun mixing in stuff from different cultures.
Still funny that the owl-bear in D&D was based off a kappa. 8)
Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2022, 04:27:21 PM
Still funny that the owl-bear in D&D was based off a kappa. 8)
Wait, what? I've never heard that before.
Depends on the game I am playing, but I do try to keep my themes separated. And I treat meta-tropes of anime as its own theme, so I don't like it bleeding in unintentionally into my other games. If I want anime tropes, I play one of the various anime rpg games. 8) Those have been fun campaigns.
But I have tired of "all-anime, all the time!" players leaking such things into where I wanted something to remain different.
I like some aspects of Japanese history and I have thought about doing a semi-historical campaign in the late Heian/Fujiwara period. One thing I like about it is the contrast between the die-hard and fatalistic samurai vs their masters, the over-sensitive and decadent Fujiwara court. BUT Having known two Japan-fetishizers ("everything Japanese is just better") I have sometimes been a bit turned off.
Anyway, maybe I'll go back to that idea later.
Quote from: Trond on August 13, 2022, 10:27:07 PM
I like some aspects of Japanese history and I have thought about doing a semi-historical campaign in the late Heian/Fujiwara period. One thing I like about it is the contrast between the die-hard and fatalistic samurai vs their masters, the over-sensitive and decadent Fujiwara court. BUT Having known two Japan-fetishizers ("everything Japanese is just better") I have sometimes been a bit turned off.
Anyway, maybe I'll go back to that idea later.
Greetings!
Hey Trond!
"Japan-Fetishizers". Yeah, it has been an observation of mine that, at least here in America, America in general has fetishized Japan for a good long while now, say 40 or 50 years, maybe more.
I originally developed my theory partially from a Pop-Cultural standpoint, but also from an educational standpoint. Through much of American schooling, Asia is for the most part ignored entirely. Then, there is Commodore Perry, and opening up Japan to the wider world during the latter half of the 19th Century.
Then, there is World War II, and our war against the Japanese Empire in the pacific. Then, there is the Korean War (Mostly ignored or gone over very briefly); Then, there is the Vietnam War, gone into some political detail, but especially focused on glorifying the Liberals, the Hippies, the Rebels, and American media personalities' fight to embarrass or otherwise shame and resist the American military and the American government.
There is the Pop-Cultural obsession with Ninjas, Katanas, Samurai, and Geishas.
That is pretty much what is typically served up as 'Asia" until college, where, depending on one's major, Asian studies at least improves somewhat. Until that point, or an individual pursues vigorous individual study, it can seem like it is all "Japan!, Japan!, Japan!"; and "Japanese everything is awesome!"
It is a to a huge degree concerning that cultural and educational frustration that when I got into college, I said "Forget Japan!"--and I formally pursued professional studies in Ancient India and Ancient China. One of my Historical specialties for my History degree was Ancient China and Ancient India studies.
There is 5,000 years and more of history going on in Ancient China, as well as Ancient India. Very interesting things, so many, many things going on. Comparatively, Japan was a primitive, barbarian backwater for most of that time.
To this day, not only academically, with my own library of books, but also feeding into my influences in gaming, I have been much re interested in Chinese and Indian sources. As a off-shoot, I have also chewed a bit into Vietnam, Thailand, and the history of the Siam region in general.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 13, 2022, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Trond on August 13, 2022, 10:27:07 PM
I like some aspects of Japanese history and I have thought about doing a semi-historical campaign in the late Heian/Fujiwara period. One thing I like about it is the contrast between the die-hard and fatalistic samurai vs their masters, the over-sensitive and decadent Fujiwara court. BUT Having known two Japan-fetishizers ("everything Japanese is just better") I have sometimes been a bit turned off.
Anyway, maybe I'll go back to that idea later.
Greetings!
Hey Trond!
"Japan-Fetishizers". Yeah, it has been an observation of mine that, at least here in America, America in general has fetishized Japan for a good long while now, say 40 or 50 years, maybe more.
I originally developed my theory partially from a Pop-Cultural standpoint, but also from an educational standpoint. Through much of American schooling, Asia is for the most part ignored entirely. Then, there is Commodore Perry, and opening up Japan to the wider world during the latter half of the 19th Century.
Then, there is World War II, and our war against the Japanese Empire in the pacific. Then, there is the Korean War (Mostly ignored or gone over very briefly); Then, there is the Vietnam War, gone into some political detail, but especially focused on glorifying the Liberals, the Hippies, the Rebels, and American media personalities' fight to embarrass or otherwise shame and resist the American military and the American government.
There is the Pop-Cultural obsession with Ninjas, Katanas, Samurai, and Geishas.
That is pretty much what is typically served up as 'Asia" until college, where, depending on one's major, Asian studies at least improves somewhat. Until that point, or an individual pursues vigorous individual study, it can seem like it is all "Japan!, Japan!, Japan!"; and "Japanese everything is awesome!"
It is a to a huge degree concerning that cultural and educational frustration that when I got into college, I said "Forget Japan!"--and I formally pursued professional studies in Ancient India and Ancient China. One of my Historical specialties for my History degree was Ancient China and Ancient India studies.
There is 5,000 years and more of history going on in Ancient China, as well as Ancient India. Very interesting things, so many, many things going on. Comparatively, Japan was a primitive, barbarian backwater for most of that time.
To this day, not only academically, with my own library of books, but also feeding into my influences in gaming, I have been much re interested in Chinese and Indian sources. As a off-shoot, I have also chewed a bit into Vietnam, Thailand, and the history of the Siam region in general.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Oh yes, I actually have more books on China and India too. I guess Japan looks more enticing in recent history though, as communism has been rough on China. Japan is nice enough, with some pretty interesting sides to it, but the romanization of ninjas and katanas gets tiresome sometimes. I'm not an expert on sword fighting but I suspect that by 1600 the katana expert would have serious problems against a European sword master with a rapier.
The other big problem with China in pop culture is, of course, the double whammy of the "century of shame" and the Cultural Revolution. China and Chinese people barely acknowledge the 1800's and some of the 1900's since they were basically occupied when the Qing Dynasty became so corrupt they let foreign owners do whatever they liked. Then in the Cultural Revolution, so much the documented history was just burned. So, unlike Japan where there is a lot of historical material to romanticize during the Meiji and Edo periods, You really have to dig if you want anything more than surface level propaganda bullshit from Chinese history. The supremacy of Japanese cultural exports compared to the rest of East Asia is mostly less to do with Japan's stellar practices (though they were damn good at marketing their culture after they rebuilt) and more to do with the rest of the continent being a giant clusterfuck. Korea is of course making a pretty big comeback on the cultural exports, it I would say that is at least partly because they have adopted more western culture into their pop culture and people seem to like that.
On the subject of swords, the katana mythologizing was a bit egregious during the early 2000's, but I have also seen a lot of European sword circle jerking as of late. If you compare the techniques used by Europeans and Japanese warriors, there really is not all that much different at a fundamental level. Skallagrim, a YouTube sword guy, recently talked about this.
Specifically comparing katana to rapiers it does depend a lot on the context. You have to remember the rapier is mostly a dedicated dueling weapon. I'm sure it was used on the battlefield occasionally, but it certainly wasn't the norm. The katana, and the tachi before it, were developed as battlefield sidearms. They were eventually used in duels, but they weren't particularly designed for the role. So, in a duel, the rapier will very likely compare better thanks to the extra reach, which is huge in single combat. On the battlefield, that reach can actually be a detriment since a lot of combat become extremely close quarters. In that instance, the katana's shorter range and heavier profile make it more suitable to just bash or cut someone who's up in your grill. Long story short rapier in duels, katana in warfare in my estimation.
But it's kinda moot, since there is no reason a European dude couldn't pick up a katana on the battlefield and the Japanese guy could also use a rapier before a duel if both weapons were available.
What's this, a balanced analysis? Hzilong, you're doing it wrong, what you're supposed to do is start a flame war ;D
Here, let me help:
-Katanas are the best you idiot!
-Rapiers are much better you moron!
-You're both losers! Viking swords rule!
Greetings!
*LAUGHING* Hilarious! I'm relaxing here, with some fresh coffee in the morning, and you guys are the first thing I pop onto here and read.
Hzilong! The continent was a giant clusterfuck! And Shallagrim! I've seen him, too!
Trond! You've got all the arguments down so well!
Fucking awesome guys.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Hzilong on August 13, 2022, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2022, 04:27:21 PM
Still funny that the owl-bear in D&D was based off a kappa. 8)
Wait, what? I've never heard that before.
Some of the monsters were from a pack of 'dinosaurs' that included some japanese monsters in it. I suspect some were inspired by Ultraman monsters as pretty sire seen some in various shows way back. Here is a example of the pieces. Pretty sure I had some of those too and never knew the connection.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg)
Quote from: Omega on August 14, 2022, 01:17:17 PM
Some of the monsters were from a pack of 'dinosaurs' that included some japanese monsters in it. I suspect some were inspired by Ultraman monsters as pretty sire seen some in various shows way back. Here is a example of the pieces. Pretty sure I had some of those too and never knew the connection.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg)
That's kind of amazing and you can totally see it. Remove the 'water cup' from that kappa and it does look a lot like an owlbear.
Quote from: Trond on August 14, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
What's this, a balanced analysis? Hzilong, you're doing it wrong, what you're supposed to do is start a flame war ;D
Here, let me help:
-Katanas are the best you idiot!
-Rapiers are much better you moron!
-You're both losers! Viking swords rule!
Why?
If you cannot use both Japanese media/history and Chinese media/history for inspiration then you are doing yolurself and your players a disservice.
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 14, 2022, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Trond on August 14, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
What's this, a balanced analysis? Hzilong, you're doing it wrong, what you're supposed to do is start a flame war ;D
Here, let me help:
-Katanas are the best you idiot!
-Rapiers are much better you moron!
-You're both losers! Viking swords rule!
Why?
If you cannot use both Japanese media/history and Chinese media/history for inspiration then you are doing yolurself and your players a disservice.
?
Jeff is either humor-impaired or responding to the wrong post.
I was just recently watching an old Ultraman episode and a monster that had to be at least one of the basis for the figurine. Had the same body and back corrugation. Ultraman goes all Ultra 7 on it and it gets wrassled to death.
Found a clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ueCzFDYkA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ueCzFDYkA)
Quote from: Trond on August 15, 2022, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 14, 2022, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Trond on August 14, 2022, 09:55:59 AM
What's this, a balanced analysis? Hzilong, you're doing it wrong, what you're supposed to do is start a flame war ;D
Here, let me help:
-Katanas are the best you idiot!
-Rapiers are much better you moron!
-You're both losers! Viking swords rule!
Why?
If you cannot use both Japanese media/history and Chinese media/history for inspiration then you are doing yolurself and your players a disservice.
?
Jeff is either humor-impaired or responding to the wrong post.
I'll say both on this one.......
Mea Culpa
A katana is literally just a cavalry saber.
The samurai's primary weapon was the bow, followed by some form of spear or polearm, with either the katana or wakazashi in third place, depending on how close the quarters were. The wakazashi was preferred for fighting indoors, for instance.
Ultraman needs no katana to wrassle a bulette. 8)
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 16, 2022, 12:18:00 AM
A katana is literally just a cavalry saber.
The samurai's primary weapon was the bow, followed by some form of spear or polearm, with either the katana or wakazashi in third place, depending on how close the quarters were. The wakazashi was preferred for fighting indoors, for instance.
The katana's blade is balanced differently and the hilt/grip is considerably changed (and generally intended for two-handed use) when compared to typical western cavalry sabres.
Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 10, 2022, 06:05:35 PM
How much does Japanese media influence your campaigns? Their story, their characters, their world, and so on. In that vein, how does Japanese media influence your players and their PCs? And what specific titles do you select ideas from?
I pick from mostly anime and manga: Digimon (monster catching), Shin Megami Tensei (religious beings, law and chaos), Berserk (respectful depiction of the outcomes of sexual assault (with player consent of course), giant swords, CLANG), Xenoseries (giant robots, science focus, robot girls)
Japanese history and culture has a big influence on some of my 40K games. There are certain planets in the Sector I have devised that have more Oriental influence with Japan being a key influence. I do focus on direct real world inspiration however and less on associated Japanese media. The one exception would be Japanese hardboiled, and noir definitely finds its way into my GMing.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 16, 2022, 01:49:21 AM
Quote from: Lurkndog on August 16, 2022, 12:18:00 AM
A katana is literally just a cavalry saber.
The samurai's primary weapon was the bow, followed by some form of spear or polearm, with either the katana or wakazashi in third place, depending on how close the quarters were. The wakazashi was preferred for fighting indoors, for instance.
The katana's blade is balanced differently and the hilt/grip is considerably changed (and generally intended for two-handed use) when compared to typical western cavalry sabres.
This is right. The katana isn't really a cavalry sword. That's more a tachi.
There is a tendency in the West to lump a lot of Japanese swords in together and describe them as katanas. It is true that Japanese swords developed their curvature as a response to samurai being used as cavalry troops. Prior to that Japanese swords (chokutō) were straight. However these curved cavalry swords are generally called tachi and the marked curvature is one of their distinguishing features compared to the somewhat later katanas.
Although confusingly a lot of this terminology is not what the contemporarous wielders would have used. E.g An 8th century Japanese warrior would also have called a straight sword a tachi, and it was only later that the term chokutō was used.
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 16, 2022, 05:36:36 AM
Although confusingly a lot of this terminology is not what the contemporarous wielders would have used. E.g An 8th century Japanese warrior would also have called a straight sword a tachi, and it was only later that the term chokutō was used.
Right. 90% of sword taxonomy is a modern invention. Hell, most of the names used for different types of swords are just "sword" in different languages. Messer? Knife. Grossmesser? Big knife. Spatha- sword, Jian- sword, tachi- sword, katana- sword pronounced/written differently, odachi- big sword.
Quote from: Hzilong on August 16, 2022, 07:01:42 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 16, 2022, 05:36:36 AM
Although confusingly a lot of this terminology is not what the contemporarous wielders would have used. E.g An 8th century Japanese warrior would also have called a straight sword a tachi, and it was only later that the term chokutō was used.
Right. 90% of sword taxonomy is a modern invention. Hell, most of the names used for different types of swords are just "sword" in different languages. Messer? Knife. Grossmesser? Big knife. Spatha- sword, Jian- sword, tachi- sword, katana- sword pronounced/written differently, odachi- big sword.
This is very true. And indeed to be honest there is overlap between swords described by different Japanese sources in different eras as tachi and swords described as katanas.
Quote from: Hzilong on August 16, 2022, 07:01:42 AM
Right. 90% of sword taxonomy is a modern invention. Hell, most of the names used for different types of swords are just "sword" in different languages. Messer? Knife. Grossmesser? Big knife. Spatha- sword, Jian- sword, tachi- sword, katana- sword pronounced/written differently, odachi- big sword.
This used to bother me in games. Then I realized that if I wanted several different sword names to use as cultural flavor in the setting, it was a whole lot easier to use several such names for essentially the same thing, instead of "forest elven sword", "steppe human sword" or even more specific with setting names.
There is very little Japanese, or even Asian influence in my games. I'll sometimes use a slight gloss on something from Asia as a style thing, in an otherwise western European or Mediterranean style. A couple of times, we've had an Asian-based character as the fish out of water trope that Geeky mentioned. However, I'm more likely to pull in something Native American based than Asian.
Using one name for a bunch of similar items (and giving them the same in-game stats) definitely works. I was watching a television program last night called Edwardian Farm. On this episode the local blacksmith forged a bill hook for use in maintaining the hedges. This specific bill hook was the Devon Bill Hook, and it was contrasted with the Cornish Bill Hook and while they basically do the same thing in the same way, there's a lot of variety. Here's a Wikipedia Picture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billhook#/media/File:Bill_Hooks_1939_Nash_-_Fussells_catalogue.jpg) of some of the variety.
Having 21 versions of a Bill Hook in your game is probably excessive. On the other hand, a bill hook is different enough from a sickle or a machete that we don't just call one the other. Mechanically, as weapons they might be the same. On the other hand, if you want to tie some advantage or cultural association to a specific weapon or variant, giving it a unique name and a different mechanic makes sense. A kukri is a type of knife, but it has an enhanced threat range in D&D. Whether that makes sense or not in the real world case almost doesn't matter. As long as it makes sense in the game (and since critical hits are a little abstract, it probably does) it can be a good thing. Ultimately, what you want to avoid is one version of a weapon being entirely superior so that everyone uses it, or, for most games, making every weapon identical so there's no difference at all between them.
I don't want to leave that last statement unexamined - it is perfectly defensible to say something like 'a hit does 1 damage' whether that's a dagger or a great sword. Or small blades do 1 damage and large blades do 2 damage. But since D&D is largely a game of imagination, I think that it's important to try to provide springboards for the imagination. I think having different weapons with different mechanics encourages that to some degree.
None, because I want to make sure that there's zero chance that I appropriate any of their sacred culture.
Quote from: Monero on August 16, 2022, 01:40:31 PM
None, because I want to make sure that there's zero chance that I appropriate any of their sacred culture.
You're too new to tell if serious.
This is why English needs a 'sarcasm' punctuation mark.
Seriously though, any Japenese culture I use is mostly via filtration through other elements; ex. I'm currently assisting my GM on setting up a Star Wars campaign. There's plenty of Japanese influence on Star Wars, but its all second-hand in this case.
During my longest running D&D campaign I used japanese inspiration for elven culture. No linguistic stuff and I had them using 'moon-swords' (similar to Klingon bat'leth's). I did this to make them more 'alien' than wishy washy Tolkien-esque concepts and even introduced a Warhammer 40k inspired idea of 'Craftholds', places like Rivendell but in pocket dimensions of their own, accessed through magical gates or event horizons in places like waterfalls, caves, or forest groves.
Wood elves were similar but worldly and less civilised. The one the players interacted with was walled off by a mystical hedge.
In retrospect it worked a little too well. Players more used to western mythology got a little confused as to why elves weren't pretty boy humans.
Quote from: caldrail on August 17, 2022, 03:37:21 AM
During my longest running D&D campaign I used japanese inspiration for elven culture. No linguistic stuff and I had them using 'moon-swords' (similar to Klingon bat'leth's). I did this to make them more 'alien' than wishy washy Tolkien-esque concepts and even introduced a Warhammer 40k inspired idea of 'Craftholds', places like Rivendell but in pocket dimensions of their own, accessed through magical gates or event horizons in places like waterfalls, caves, or forest groves.
Wood elves were similar but worldly and less civilised. The one the players interacted with was walled off by a mystical hedge.
In retrospect it worked a little too well. Players more used to western mythology got a little confused as to why elves weren't pretty boy humans.
It's not western mythology that portrays elves as pretty big humans, that's western pop culture. In most mythologies, they were quite different.
You think? In some respects I agree, but notice how often agents of mythology appear as human.
Quote from: Omega on August 12, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
More interesting are the influences of western fantasy on Japanese fantasy. Even today I spot fantasy anime with the classic O/A/BX style dog-men Kobolds and even the occasional boar headed Orcs and so on. Clerics turning undead. Western style dragons. and so on.
Yes, I was thinking of that when I saw the manga Delicious in Dungeon today. It basically seems to be old-school D&D, just a bit more satirical.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 17, 2022, 03:51:04 AM
It's not western mythology that portrays elves as pretty big humans, that's western pop culture. In most mythologies, they were quite different.
Very different indeed. Japanese Yokai would be a better comparison to some european elves. Weird, alien and half the time inhuman. And probably more than half the time dangerous in one way or another.
One thing I did in an OA meets Greyhawk adventure was showcasing the more classical faeries and elves clashing with the more classical yokai. With the PCs from both lands caught in the middle trying to sort things out and put down the worst of both sides that are running amok. Or more amok than usual. On one side was a Far Darrig causing trouble and on the other was a Bake-danuki aka a Tanooki who was doing the same and both were dragging other supernaturals into the war of deadly pranks.
Quote from: MeganovaStella on August 10, 2022, 06:05:35 PM
How much does Japanese media influence your campaigns? Their story, their characters, their world, and so on. In that vein, how does Japanese media influence your players and their PCs? And what specific titles do you select ideas from?
I pick from mostly anime and manga: Digimon (monster catching), Shin Megami Tensei (religious beings, law and chaos), Berserk (respectful depiction of the outcomes of sexual assault (with player consent of course), giant swords, CLANG), Xenoseries (giant robots, science focus, robot girls)
I picked up the Goblin Slayer Japanese TTRPG translation recently:
https://www.amazon.com/Goblin-Slayer-Tabletop-Roleplaying-Game/dp/1975318315
(They have the wrong cover for it on both the Yen Press Website and the Kobo eBook store. I've written to them about it but not only didn't they fix it, the only effect it seems to have had was to have them mess up the cover on their Website as well. Basically they put the cover for a different TTRPG that they publish for it instead.) I got both the physical version and picked up the eBook version later. I'm not sure if I will ever play it, but I was interested in what is basically a Japanese take on simple AD&D using Sword World Rules. It does seem like a fun game, and the book is a complete RPG. The player races are human, dwarf, elf, lizardman and rhea(hobbits, more or less). Races get bonuses or penalties to various stats. Classes are fighter, monk, ranger, scout, sorcerer, priest, dragon-priest and shaman. For some reason they decided to call thieves, scouts. Shamans aren't exactly druids, they call on the power of elemental spirits. It has a decent section on spells for the various spell-casting classes and a decent bestiary for the various types of monsters. (Goblins are prominent but there are a lot of other varieties and types of monsters in it too.)
I notice that a considerable amount of fantasy stuff I read nowadays, if it isn't old stuff like Jack Vance or Clark Ashton Smith, tends to be Japanese light novels like Magic-User, Overlord, the Faraway Paladin, the Unwanted, Undead Adventurer or Goblin Slayer. I can tell the difference between Western fantasy and Japanese fantasy. For example, when I was playing D&D the idea that the party would go and register with the local adventurers guild in order to legally operate as adventurers never even occurred to me. Overlord even has unregistered adventurers who don't register with their local guild (called Workers to differentiate them from Adventurers) and they end up getting more disreputable quests from more dubious sources as a result, but with greater opportunities for personal gain.
If I ever manage to get a group together again, I'll probably consider suggesting that idea as a player or using it as a DM. I particularly like the contrast between reputable Adventurers who sometimes need to accept guild requests as part of staying in good standing, and disreputable Workers, who get more dangerous quests from quest-givers who might intend to betray them later.
As to other Japanese fantasy sources, I think The Ancient Magus Bride is a good attempt to portray European style faeries as the otherworldly creatures that they were in old legends rather than the typical AD&D elves.
I have always been interested in Japanese history, but nowadays I feel that some of my friends are borderline obsessed, and those big-eyed anime and manga characters pop up a bit much in popular culture. It never really did anything for me.
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
None at all, I despise anime and Japanese media in general, and very greatly, to the extent that I let it color my reaction roll to a potential player/participant quite negatively. I can work up a good frothy irrational rage over it in fact. I also note that if you venn diagram problem players and issues there is significant anime overlap such that I use it as a screening mechanism. Having been to Japan and worked for them I have some insight on this, the Japanese themselves sort of look down on anime (outside the circle of anime fans) and blame it for a lack of grandchildren. They also despise what the internet terms "weebs" to the same degree that I despise anime.
Regardless, King Kong > Godzirra, hands down, everytime, and I will nuke the naysayers.
Quote from: Persimmon on November 06, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
There are some rather good historical themed anime and manga out there and even a rather nicely done merger of Japanese writing and Chinese puppet theater for the puppet show Thunderbolt Fantasy. Apparently there are more produced in China that have not seen much of yet. But are really amazing some of the effects and style used. Which then got me to check out what some traditional puppet theater is like.
I've always wanted to do Sengoku period Japan with mecha using Mekton, I just don't have enough knowledge of the period.
Quote from: Omega on November 07, 2022, 12:46:41 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on November 06, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
There are some rather good historical themed anime and manga out there and even a rather nicely done merger of Japanese writing and Chinese puppet theater for the puppet show Thunderbolt Fantasy. Apparently there are more produced in China that have not seen much of yet. But are really amazing some of the effects and style used. Which then got me to check out what some traditional puppet theater is like.
This is true but I don't care because I know the actual history and folklore upon which these things are based. I have no need or desire to read a comic book about the Sengoku Era or the fall of the Ming dynasty. I can read the actual histories in the original languages and derive inspiration from them.
I will admit that such mediums do inspire some students to take my classes so that's a plus. And they are often quite surprised to find how much both of these things crib from real history & folklore.
Quote from: Persimmon on November 07, 2022, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: Omega on November 07, 2022, 12:46:41 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on November 06, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
There are some rather good historical themed anime and manga out there and even a rather nicely done merger of Japanese writing and Chinese puppet theater for the puppet show Thunderbolt Fantasy. Apparently there are more produced in China that have not seen much of yet. But are really amazing some of the effects and style used. Which then got me to check out what some traditional puppet theater is like.
This is true but I don't care because I know the actual history and folklore upon which these things are based. I have no need or desire to read a comic book about the Sengoku Era or the fall of the Ming dynasty. I can read the actual histories in the original languages and derive inspiration from them.
I will admit that such mediums do inspire some students to take my classes so that's a plus. And they are often quite surprised to find how much both of these things crib from real history & folklore.
But that also applies to Western fantasy. I have no interest in Game of Thrones, for example, because I much rather read about the War of the Roses. However, any kind of fantasy setting should simply be viewed for what it is: entertainment. My real complaint is with books and films that claim to be historically accurate but are in reality a complete fabrication.
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 07, 2022, 05:47:29 AM
I've always wanted to do Sengoku period Japan with mecha using Mekton, I just don't have enough knowledge of the period.
That sounds *amazing*. You don't have to be a historian to pull it off. Just get the motifs right - Clans vying for power, intrigue, treachery, Cold Wars, inter-marriage alliances, all with big custom Clan-specific Mechs. Huge battles!
And the PC's are part of a Clan trying to survive/win the contest that will set the standard of the new status-quo (possibly being the ruling House). Yeah man, this could be a thing!
Quote from: Rhymer88 on November 07, 2022, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on November 07, 2022, 08:36:25 AM
Quote from: Omega on November 07, 2022, 12:46:41 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on November 06, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
There are some rather good historical themed anime and manga out there and even a rather nicely done merger of Japanese writing and Chinese puppet theater for the puppet show Thunderbolt Fantasy. Apparently there are more produced in China that have not seen much of yet. But are really amazing some of the effects and style used. Which then got me to check out what some traditional puppet theater is like.
This is true but I don't care because I know the actual history and folklore upon which these things are based. I have no need or desire to read a comic book about the Sengoku Era or the fall of the Ming dynasty. I can read the actual histories in the original languages and derive inspiration from them.
I will admit that such mediums do inspire some students to take my classes so that's a plus. And they are often quite surprised to find how much both of these things crib from real history & folklore.
But that also applies to Western fantasy. I have no interest in Game of Thrones, for example, because I much rather read about the War of the Roses. However, any kind of fantasy setting should simply be viewed for what it is: entertainment. My real complaint is with books and films that claim to be historically accurate but are in reality a complete fabrication.
Totally agree, though I do enjoy GoT. In fact, one of my own books is essentially GoT in 17th century China, but it's real.
But the OP asked about Asia, hence the nature of my response.
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 07, 2022, 05:47:29 AM
I've always wanted to do Sengoku period Japan with mecha using Mekton, I just don't have enough knowledge of the period.
If you are going Mecha and Sengoku, I wouldn't worry about historical accuracy. That setting sounds like tropes and stereotypes are the way to go. Or make it up.
If anybody wants a D20 OSR game reworked for medieval Japan, this is a free one you can download called Shinobi & Samurai.
http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf (http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/7/4/23742956/shinobi__samurai_1.0b.pdf)
Another game I can recommend is Sengoku, but this time the appeal is for Japanese lore. It is a game running the Fuzion system, which I'm not a fan of.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16758/Sengoku-Revised-Edition (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16758/Sengoku-Revised-Edition)
Now do a D20 OSR game for anime.
Quote from: MeganovaStella on November 07, 2022, 06:57:12 PM
Now do a D20 OSR game for anime.
D20 Modern was pretty much this for a while. One of the Polyhedron pack in games is one about Travelling music groups salving crimes as in some older cartoons. Another covered being trapped in a video game and having to explore various game worlds and games based on whatever arcade or console game you wanted. Even ones for mecha battles and pulp heroes among others.
As with most of these sorts of systems, the DM still has to do alot of the legwork. But not as much as say gurps or BESM. But BESM has ample expansions geared to specific types of stories, and not just anime.
AD&D itself is more than able to handle a historic themed setting, especially something like Japan and to a lesser degree China once you have Oriental Adventures. Ancient Rome, Celtics, Crusades? They had ones for those too.
Quote from: MeganovaStella on November 07, 2022, 06:57:12 PM
Now do a D20 OSR game for anime.
BESM d20 version is here. FYI, BESM stands for Big Eyes, Small Mouth. Weird name, but that's what it's called. It is meant to cover all anime genres from Samurai to Mecha, or even quirky Japanese dating in highschool love triangles.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/850 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/850)
Oh, and look at that. It's on sale at $10 instead of the usual $35.
NONE
I am running an RPG setin the Star Trek universe...
Wait does"Sulu" count as influence?
No, wait my campaign set 4 years before "TOS"...
Yep, still NO Japanese influence
- Ed C.
(there ARE other cartoons people!)
Quote from: Koltar on November 07, 2022, 11:28:39 PM
NONE
I am running an RPG setin the Star Trek universe...
Wait does"Sulu" count as influence?
No, wait my campaign set 4 years before "TOS"...
Yep, still NO Japanese influence
- Ed C.
(there ARE other cartoons people!)
Yeah! Like "Lower Decks" which is totally not influenced by anime!
Answering the OP: Yes, I love to play games based or informed by Japanese culture (even if I don't usually like to mix genres/themes). Shinobigami is one of my favorites, for eg:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/diamondsutra/shinobigami-modern-ninja-battle-tabletop-rpg-from
Quote from: Omega on November 07, 2022, 12:46:41 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on November 06, 2022, 06:37:05 PM
Funny thing with me is that while I'm literally a professor of Asian military history, anime and manga have never appealed to me. My entry into Asian cultures was via Godzilla in the 1970s and Kung-fu movies and James Clavell novels in the 1980s. So those things have an influence in my campaign. There are analogues to the major East Asian cultures and a couple kaiju infested islands exist far to the south of the main continent.
There are some rather good historical themed anime and manga out there and even a rather nicely done merger of Japanese writing and Chinese puppet theater for the puppet show Thunderbolt Fantasy. Apparently there are more produced in China that have not seen much of yet. But are really amazing some of the effects and style used. Which then got me to check out what some traditional puppet theater is like.
Point in case, I recently came across this historical anime, "Hyouge Mono", about a "tea aesthete" at Nobunaga's court. Very interesting and I totally recommend it:
https://myanimelist.net/anime/9996/Hyouge_Mono
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 08, 2022, 09:34:06 AM
Yeah! Like "Lower Decks" which is totally not influenced by anime!
My campaign takes place in 2261, "Lower Decks" takes place in 2380 to 2382 - at least a century later in the timeline.
So, yeah No Japanese or even 'anime' influence in my campaign.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Lynn on August 14, 2022, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: Omega on August 14, 2022, 01:17:17 PM
Some of the monsters were from a pack of 'dinosaurs' that included some japanese monsters in it. I suspect some were inspired by Ultraman monsters as pretty sire seen some in various shows way back. Here is a example of the pieces. Pretty sure I had some of those too and never knew the connection.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PrehistoricAnimalsS.jpg)
That's kind of amazing and you can totally see it. Remove the 'water cup' from that kappa and it does look a lot like an owlbear.
Yes, fascinating. Here's an article explaining how the Hong-Kong-produced plastic toy is probably a kappa, though most of the others are off-brand copies of the Japanese comic and show Ultraman.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-plastic-ancestry-of-the-owlbear.672928/
However, there's a convincing comment on that article that the figure is actually an off-brand copy of Totsaurus from the Japanese show "Go! Godman".
https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Totsaurus
Quote from: Koltar on November 08, 2022, 11:48:44 AM
My campaign takes place in 2261, "Lower Decks" takes place in 2380 to 2382 - at least a century later in the timeline.
So, yeah No Japanese or even 'anime' influence in my campaign.
It's very indirect, but the show's producers talked some about how Westerns influenced original series Star Trek.
And U.S. Westerns influenced and were influenced by Japanese films - like The Seven Samurai vs The Magnificent Seven.
So that would be a very indirect influence.
the word "anime" means too many things to people.
I was there at the dawn of anime - Gigantor, Speed Racer, Gundam, Kimba etc. Love Lodoss, Ninja Scroll, all the usual suspects. Somewhere between Studio Ghibli, and Full Meta Alchemist the genre *really* fractured into many subgenres (which honestly always existed in some form, but only got popular with weebs here in the states.) I find it difficult to connect to the sillier stuff. I'm not against "anime" but like all things: I only want the good stuff. And like most popular things - there is a sea of dogshit and the good-stuff is hard to find in it.
As someone that is part Japanese and lived there - I don't associate "anime" with Japanese influence or even actual "real" Japanese culture per se. It's a pop-culture artifact that is as much an industrial product of Japan consuming post-war American cartoons and regurgitating the form back at everyone. I don't have any proof of this, but I'm betting Americans consume more anime more intensely than the average Japanese person. Age demographics are likely part of this. I know there is a very very healthy industrial channel in Japan for teaching animation and art for the express purpose of churning this stuff out out for international consumption.
As for translating it to TTRPG's? Japanese culture in my TTRPG's is a feudal aesthetic with strong martial tones and traditions to me. It's about forms and codes, and the friction caused by those that break them (for good or bad reasons) - the contrast of morality codes in action. I'm less interested in the aping of feudal Japanese culture which I think dominates most "anime" assumptions of Japanese feudal culture. To make these ideas which also appear in European and Middle-Eastern cultures as well, distinct from one another, one has to understand many of the arts that make these cultures value and practice (and hopefully *why* they're valued) for verisimilitude, if nothing else. I prefer the more romantic ideas of these cultures vs. the realistic versions of them by default. Mainly because TTRPG's can get down to dirty realism very quickly if the players feel too constrained by the pomp and detail.
I reserve the influence of Japanese culture in my games by a choice of refinement in the setting and its NPC's as *necessary*.
Quote from: Koltar on November 08, 2022, 11:48:44 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 08, 2022, 09:34:06 AM
Yeah! Like "Lower Decks" which is totally not influenced by anime!
My campaign takes place in 2261, "Lower Decks" takes place in 2380 to 2382 - at least a century later in the timeline.
So, yeah No Japanese or even 'anime' influence in my campaign.
- Ed C.
That just means that your campaign is subject to the influences of "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" and its anime influences.
And Klingon cosplay totally isn't an offshoot of anime cosplay.......
Quote from: tenbones on November 08, 2022, 03:41:05 PM
As someone that is part Japanese and lived there - I don't associate "anime" with Japanese influence or even actual "real" Japanese culture per se. It's a pop-culture artifact that is as much an industrial product of Japan consuming post-war American cartoons and regurgitating the form back at everyone. I don't have any proof of this, but I'm betting Americans consume more anime more intensely than the average Japanese person. Age demographics are likely part of this. I know there is a very very healthy industrial channel in Japan for teaching animation and art for the express purpose of churning this stuff out out for international consumption.
I would say that American otaku might be more obsessed than regular Japanese, but against Japanese otaku the best they can hope for is a tie. If you're going to stick out in Japanese culture, apparently it doesn't pay to do it halfway.
Average Americans are probably on a similar level with average Japanese. They mostly don't care that much, but they will perk up when they see something from their childhood.
In the 90s and 2000s, American otaku tended to be somewhat better socialized than other fandoms, because getting anime used to require the ability to network and do tape trading.
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 08, 2022, 08:12:15 PM
And Klingon cosplay totally isn't an offshoot of anime cosplay.......
Star Trek cosplay was probably the originator of all other cosplay.
But well before that cartoon and TV themed halloween masks/costumes were a thing.
Star Trek may have been the first to show people that this sort of stuff could be fun. Though I'd be really surprised if there were not some Lord of the Rings costuming going on well before that at conventions.
The problem with anime is the dichotomy of thinking, "This is the coolest shit, ever!", or "What is wrong with these people?!?!....<right click, save as>".
Like Goblin Slayer. I would class that as both in the first episode.
But some of my favorite bits of entertainment are anime. Macross and Mospeada in particular. Whenever I think of Power Armor characters, I think Cyclones are better. When it comes to high tech jet fighters, I want a transforming Valkyrie.
When we played Palladium Rifts, two of the six player group PCs were Veritech pilots, one imported, and the other a brand new PC.
Rifts has a ton of robot vehicles in it. A Coalition UAR-1 Enforcer is just a mech, but Palladium cut and pasted the rules from RoboTech/Macross.
Today, I would probably go Tiny D6 Mecha vs Monsters. Their 2nd Edition, "Evolved", is due out soon. It's my game of choice, but don't buy it until it's out and reviewed. Hopefully before Thanksgiving.
My current campaign is intended to be laser-focused on European mythology and folklore, so I'm trying to keep Asian and American influences to a minimum.
However, one of my back-burner projects is a campaign setting intending to try and emulate the world-design and narrative tone of the Souls series (King's Field, Demon's Souls, and Dark Souls primarily).
That ends up being an interesting case of cross-pollination. Those games are Japanese products, but their primary influences are western fantasy, including old-school game books like Fighting Fantasy and Steve Jackson's "Sorcery" series. There's also a big influence from European mythology. For example, the cosmology of Dark Souls I is substantially a re-interpretation of Hesiod, with the Gods given Celtic-sounding names and the Titans replaced by dragons. (The final boss of the game is almost literally Zeus, lightning bolts included). There are Japanese influences on the Souls series as well, but the biggest one, Berserk, is itself liberally borrowed from European history and aesthetics. The result ends up being a western fantasy filtered through the lens of a Japanese cultural eye.
For my own setting, I'm probably going to be stripping out some of the more typically Japanese concepts, particularly Shinto ideas about purity and corruption that are a recurring theme in those games, so I don't know how much my own end project is going to owe to Japanese ideas, versus the originally western ideas they pulled from.
It also flows the other way too. In alot of anime you see alot of western touches.
D&D via Lodoss War had a heavy influence on Japanese fantasy that continues to this day.
Quote from: Omega on November 09, 2022, 02:52:26 AM
Quote from: jeff37923 on November 08, 2022, 08:12:15 PM
And Klingon cosplay totally isn't an offshoot of anime cosplay.......
Star Trek cosplay was probably the originator of all other cosplay.
But well before that cartoon and TV themed halloween masks/costumes were a thing.
Star Trek may have been the first to show people that this sort of stuff could be fun. Though I'd be really surprised if there were not some Lord of the Rings costuming going on well before that at conventions.
It is the Otaku Ouroboros!
Quote from: Omega on November 09, 2022, 02:01:00 PM
It also flows the other way too. In alot of anime you see alot of western touches.
D&D via Lodoss War had a heavy influence on Japanese fantasy that continues to this day.
Even more: many Japanese see comics and animation as American/Western things.
Well my hatred for all thing anime weeb otaku or whatever is no secret, but let me tell you about my first experience with such:
So J comes back from okinawa when his enlistment contract is up and he brings all these comics that are essentially strange light-tier cartoon porn that you have to read backwards (like 3 attempts to make sense of it b4 i caught that, you have to do it backwards) and some vhs tapes. He is all "this is great stuff" and pops in an anime called something like "Chojen, legend of the overfiend" which is about a guy that chops off his pecker and replaces it with an alien worm which gives him super powers, one of which is to explode people when he ejaculates into them.
:o :o :o :o :o
From that moment forward the presence of anything otaku weeb or anime sends me automatically to yellow alert, shields up, but if i see your typical anime girl especially with those "precious moments" proportions of face and head I go to red alert, power to the forward weapons, helm plot a course for that crytpo-pedos anus and prepare size 10.5 steel toe torpedoes....victory is life, today is a good day to die, victory or valhalla....and then I'm done, my blood is up, I'm Lee at gettysburg and this is our finest hour. Fix bayonets.
Yes I suppose I am a reactionary. Now I've had some people claim this is me being racist, I disagree, it has nothing to do with race, I would never have worked for the Japanese or went to their island if that were the case. Last one to hint such worked at pharmacy giving flu shots where she complained that we hillbillies do not see race, because part of her job is to ask the race of the customer getting the shot and everyone in kentucky says "hell american i guess" and gets offended at her for asking...because thats how we were raised, you do not have to like or even visit blacks or koreans or whoever in this or that city but if they are attacked by say china or russia then YOU are attacked, and you are all brothers in both christ jesus first and under the flag of american nationalism second....this was a problem for her, and my reaction to anime makes as evil as nathan bedford forest to her.
Quote from: tenbones on November 08, 2022, 03:41:05 PM
As someone that is part Japanese and lived there - I don't associate "anime" with Japanese influence or even actual "real" Japanese culture per se. It's a pop-culture artifact that is as much an industrial product of Japan consuming post-war American cartoons and regurgitating the form back at everyone. I don't have any proof of this, but I'm betting Americans consume more anime more intensely than the average Japanese person. Age demographics are likely part of this. I know there is a very very healthy industrial channel in Japan for teaching animation and art for the express purpose of churning this stuff out out for international consumption.
That makes sense. Japanese pop culture influences probably extend across all of Asia. Mangas are a huge thing in Thailand, for example, certainly more so than here in Europe. The Chinese, meanwhile, have a truly massive donghua (animated film) industry, which is certainly influenced by Japan, but often focuses on specifically Chinese themes such as wuxia/xianxia.
Quote from: Slipshot762 on November 10, 2022, 02:11:53 AM
Well my hatred for all thing anime weeb otaku or whatever is no secret, but let me tell you about my first experience with such:
So J comes back from okinawa when his enlistment contract is up and he brings all these comics that are essentially strange light-tier cartoon porn that you have to read backwards (like 3 attempts to make sense of it b4 i caught that, you have to do it backwards) and some vhs tapes. He is all "this is great stuff" and pops in an anime called something like "Chojen, legend of the overfiend" which is about a guy that chops off his pecker and replaces it with an alien worm which gives him super powers, one of which is to explode people when he ejaculates into them.
:o :o :o :o :o
From that moment forward the presence of anything otaku weeb or anime sends me automatically to yellow alert, shields up, but if i see your typical anime girl especially with those "precious moments" proportions of face and head I go to red alert, power to the forward weapons, helm plot a course for that crytpo-pedos anus and prepare size 10.5 steel toe torpedoes....victory is life, today is a good day to die, victory or valhalla....and then I'm done, my blood is up, I'm Lee at gettysburg and this is our finest hour. Fix bayonets.
Yes I suppose I am a reactionary. Now I've had some people claim this is me being racist, I disagree, it has nothing to do with race, I would never have worked for the Japanese or went to their island if that were the case. Last one to hint such worked at pharmacy giving flu shots where she complained that we hillbillies do not see race, because part of her job is to ask the race of the customer getting the shot and everyone in kentucky says "hell american i guess" and gets offended at her for asking...because thats how we were raised, you do not have to like or even visit blacks or koreans or whoever in this or that city but if they are attacked by say china or russia then YOU are attacked, and you are all brothers in both christ jesus first and under the flag of american nationalism second....this was a problem for her, and my reaction to anime makes as evil as nathan bedford forest to her.
I am sorry that was the first exposure you had to Japanese pop culture. It would be like having your first exposure to comic book films being one of those knock-off hardcore porn parodies. What you saw was some of the more explicit stuff that Japan can offer. Not a good way to be introduced to it.
I personally don't have anything Japanese pop culture in my games.
BUT,
I HAVE been toying with the idea of a campaign that fashions itself using tropes and concepts from Japanese console RPG's (JRPG) as a throwback to the 16-bit era. Some of which has already been morphed back into tabletop games already. These are pulled from the Retro Phaze rpg (kind of a mesh of OD&D and JRPG tropes), but they give a good idea:
1. Points of Light: Taken to the extreme. In many of the 90's games, there was usually some cateclymic event, and now there are only, say, a dozen settlements in the entire world (towns, cities, maybe a metropolis). City-States, basically. Humanity huddles around these points of light. Everything else is ruins and wilderness filled with monsters.
2. This is THE Quest: The main antagonist isn't trying to take over a kingdom, or even a continent... They're usually trying to destroy the world for X reason. Many older JRPG games utilize the Law versus Chaos tropes of fantasy. They could be the Lord of Chaos, a power-hungry Emperor that assaults Heaven and Hell, a physical manifestation of Chaos itself, or an eldritch alien being attempting to consume the lifeforce of a planet. A campaign is the defining story of that world. Much like Pathfinder adventure paths, or many of the 5E books, your characters are saving the world. Once finished with this campaign, the next campaign takes place in a new world.
3. Boss Fights: Boss fights should be more than just a group of characters beating up on a monster. Usually, boss fights in JRPG games feature gimmicks, or extra strategy. Maybe the boss's henchmen heal him. Maybe they have special attacks that do crazy things (like steal a spell from the Wizard to use), or it has a second form. One of the bosses in Final Fantasy VI had the ability to hide inside it's shell; if you attack it during this time, it immediately counterattacks with a special attack.
Again, a lot of the JRPG tropes have made their ways into newer editions of D&D... and then overused (I mean, how many world-ending events is Forgotten Realms going to go through?)
Quote from: Rhymer88 on November 10, 2022, 06:13:39 AM
Quote from: tenbones on November 08, 2022, 03:41:05 PM
As someone that is part Japanese and lived there - I don't associate "anime" with Japanese influence or even actual "real" Japanese culture per se. It's a pop-culture artifact that is as much an industrial product of Japan consuming post-war American cartoons and regurgitating the form back at everyone. I don't have any proof of this, but I'm betting Americans consume more anime more intensely than the average Japanese person. Age demographics are likely part of this. I know there is a very very healthy industrial channel in Japan for teaching animation and art for the express purpose of churning this stuff out out for international consumption.
That makes sense. Japanese pop culture influences probably extend across all of Asia. Mangas are a huge thing in Thailand, for example, certainly more so than here in Europe. The Chinese, meanwhile, have a truly massive donghua (animated film) industry, which is certainly influenced by Japan, but often focuses on specifically Chinese themes such as wuxia/xianxia.
Exactly. And the anime/manga cultures of those locations look nothing like the weird Weeb-culture of America. What's even weirder, are the Weebs here that think it IS that way over there. Don't get me wrong, that whole waifu/chibi marketing thing is real... but the mass consumers over there generally do not dress/act like that.
The worst aspect is the pre-eminence Weebs place on anime as representative of "Japanese culture"... It's like people into Warner Bros. cartoons running around talking in a faux-NYC Bugs Bunny accent and locally talking about "American Culture" with his friend talking like Elmer Fudd as if it's serious.
Of course to the Weebs reading this - YMMV. But let's be clear here... "Japanese Influence in Your Campaigns" has a orders of magnitude different meaning to *most* older gamers than anime. But I'll freely admit anime is a thing... it rubs me wrong as being representative of the much larger scope of the question.
Quote from: Slipshot762 on November 10, 2022, 02:11:53 AM
From that moment forward the presence of anything otaku weeb or anime sends me automatically to yellow alert, shields up,
Thats well past idiotic. Its like watching one porn movie and swearing off all movies ever and running around declaring all movies are porn movies. So far off the deep end you've come right back around hit yourself in the ass. Ive seen this sort of stupid before.
Have a look at anime like Record of Lodoss War. Or go back and watch the old Speed Racer or Starblazers anime. These things used to be pretty common. And so on. Robotech, much as I dislike it, is another one. There were also like dozens of anime adaptions of classic books. Heidi was one recall. Another was Earthsea.
And some adaptions are hardly recognizable. But at least entertaining like the Lensman movie and series or the Captain Future series. Probably others just never heard of.
Quote from: World_Warrior on November 10, 2022, 07:24:24 AM
1. Points of Light: Taken to the extreme. In many of the 90's games, there was usually some cateclymic event, and now there are only, say, a dozen settlements in the entire world (towns, cities, maybe a metropolis). City-States, basically. Humanity huddles around these points of light. Everything else is ruins and wilderness filled with monsters.
2. This is THE Quest: The main antagonist isn't trying to take over a kingdom, or even a continent... They're usually trying to destroy the world for X reason. Many older JRPG games utilize the Law versus Chaos tropes of fantasy. They could be the Lord of Chaos, a power-hungry Emperor that assaults Heaven and Hell, a physical manifestation of Chaos itself, or an eldritch alien being attempting to consume the lifeforce of a planet. A campaign is the defining story of that world. Much like Pathfinder adventure paths, or many of the 5E books, your characters are saving the world. Once finished with this campaign, the next campaign takes place in a new world.
Reminds me of the old Zero Punctuation joke about how every JRPG eventually comes down to "teenagers using the power of friendship to kill God".
I do like the idea about "points of light" though. Fewer settlements in the campaign world mean more time you can devote to developing and fleshing them out.
Quote from: ForgottenF on November 10, 2022, 02:45:52 PM
Quote from: World_Warrior on November 10, 2022, 07:24:24 AM
1. Points of Light: Taken to the extreme. In many of the 90's games, there was usually some cateclymic event, and now there are only, say, a dozen settlements in the entire world (towns, cities, maybe a metropolis). City-States, basically. Humanity huddles around these points of light. Everything else is ruins and wilderness filled with monsters.
2. This is THE Quest: The main antagonist isn't trying to take over a kingdom, or even a continent... They're usually trying to destroy the world for X reason. Many older JRPG games utilize the Law versus Chaos tropes of fantasy. They could be the Lord of Chaos, a power-hungry Emperor that assaults Heaven and Hell, a physical manifestation of Chaos itself, or an eldritch alien being attempting to consume the lifeforce of a planet. A campaign is the defining story of that world. Much like Pathfinder adventure paths, or many of the 5E books, your characters are saving the world. Once finished with this campaign, the next campaign takes place in a new world.
Reminds me of the old Zero Punctuation joke about how every JRPG eventually comes down to "teenagers using the power of friendship to kill God".
I do like the idea about "points of light" though. Fewer settlements in the campaign world mean more time you can devote to developing and fleshing them out.
That was literally just about every JRPG for many years. In fact, that pretty much sums up Earthbound 100%. I like the idea of it, and some of the branching genres within JRPG's... but it would definitely get old if it was all set in the same world (see my Forgotten Realms comment above). But having a specific campaign length, and doing a new world each time? I could get behind that. It also helps when said world usually only has 12-15 towns in the world.
And, yes, fewer towns also means having more ideas to make them unique. Starting in the mid-90's, JRPG games really started to make their locations have unique features. Unlike original Final Fantasy 1, towns were no longer carbon copies. Final Fantasy 6, for example had the frozen town of Narshe, with its steam pipes feeding heat to the homes; Zozo was a city full of bad guys and monsters, like some chaotic evil version of Kowloon. Then you have a place like Vector, which looks pulled straight out of Metropolis, or Figaro Castle, which can descend under the desert sands when threatened.
Here is the thing though, people confuse anime the storytelling medium with anime the cultural representation. To say anime is like saying "book" or "movie", not like saying "a slice of life view into Japanese culture" because that is how weebs and otaku come into being. For Americans, it would be like saying that the Die Hard movies are commonplace representations of everyday life in the USA - a weeb would probably believe this.
There is good anime and bad anime.
I like hard science fiction, which causes me to gravitate towards the Gundam anime franchise. Now with all the Newtype bullshit and giant stompy robots, a lot of the Gundam shows also deal with things like propellant load and delta V requirements for space craft (including giant stompy robots). Now each anime must stand on its own and even the Gundam franchise has its stinkers (I'm looking at you, Mobile Fighter G Gundam). So take each one on its own flaws and merits.
I don't necessarily hate hentai, but I'm not exactly a fan of it either. In my late teens a couple of friends in my gaming group were obsessed with anime, and they would often get me to cart them around in my car looking for anime, under the pretext that we would play RPGs later, only for them to immediately start watching them at my house and never get around playing. At least half of it was just weird tentacle porn. Eventually got me put off by anime as a result.
Not exactly a fan of JRPGs either, despite getting into RPGs through them. All of them were basically story driven railroad adventures with lots of XP farming in between "quests" that were basically there just to advance the story in a linear fashion. The moment I was exposed to cRPGs and other computer games, I dropped consoles like a bad habit and J"RPGs" with them, and never looked back.
It wasn't until relatively recently that saw a couple of animes again (Goblin Slayer and Gate come to mind, maybe others) while hanging out with a friend. But it's still not exactly my thing.
Quote from: Omega on November 10, 2022, 12:55:14 PM
So far off the deep end you've come right back around hit yourself in the ass. Ive seen this sort of stupid before.
Yeah, I'm like that, I do that a lot. Can't be helped.
Quote from: Omega on November 09, 2022, 02:52:26 AM
Star Trek cosplay was probably the originator of all other cosplay.
No, the masquerade was a popular event at science fiction cons for decades before Star Trek.
In particular, Forrest J Ackerman and Myrtle R. Douglas turned up in futuristic sci fi garb inspired by
Things to Come (1935) at the first WorldCon in 1939. The second Worldcon in 1940 featured the first SF masquerade contest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_J_Ackerman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costume_party
Quote from: Lurkndog on November 13, 2022, 10:49:34 AM
No, the masquerade was a popular event at science fiction cons for decades before Star Trek.
In particular, Forrest J Ackerman and Myrtle R. Douglas turned up in futuristic sci fi garb inspired by Things to Come (1935) at the first WorldCon in 1939. The second Worldcon in 1940 featured the first SF masquerade contest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_J_Ackerman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costume_party
Thank You.
..and back then they did NOT call it 'cosplay'.
It was called masquerade or costume competition.
That is the terminology I grew up with.
-Ed C.