TheRPGSite

Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Batjon on October 14, 2021, 01:23:46 PM

Title: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Batjon on October 14, 2021, 01:23:46 PM
I own both the James Bond 007 RPG and the retro-clone of it, Classified.  I am wondering which one those of you out there that have looked at both prefer? Do you find the retro-clone to be better organization and upgrade or do you still prefer the original?
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: jhkim on October 14, 2021, 01:54:23 PM
I own both the James Bond 007 RPG and the retro-clone of it, Classified.  I am wondering which one those of you out there that have looked at both prefer? Do you find the retro-clone to be better organization and upgrade or do you still prefer the original?

I've played 007 a bunch, but I've only skimmed through Classified. What I'm most suspicious of is the update to modern day. Obviously, the reality of modern-day espionage is very different from the 1980s, and further, modern superspy movies are very different from 1980s superspy movies. It looks to me like they've done only a very thin job of updating.

When I ran James Bond 007 in the early 2000s, it was intentionally retro in that the game was set in the 1980s and was modeled on the 1980s Bond films. If I was to do a 1980s superspy campaign again, I think I would still use the original 007. It's intentionally and authentically 1980s.

If I wanted to do a modern-day movie like the Daniel Craig Bond movies, I'm still not sure that Classified is the right choice. I'd want to look further afield at different options.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Jaeger on October 14, 2021, 02:14:32 PM
I own both the James Bond 007 RPG and the retro-clone of it, Classified.  I am wondering which one those of you out there that have looked at both prefer? Do you find the retro-clone to be better organization and upgrade or do you still prefer the original?

The original is still available on ebay at reasonable prices. So I would buy that first.

However, no first edition game is without flaws. It would be worth looking into the clone and see which issues they say that they address. Classified is certainly cheap enough it might be worth just getting both and seeing what you like.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: hedgehobbit on October 15, 2021, 08:06:28 AM
I own both the James Bond 007 RPG and the retro-clone of it, Classified.

I wasn't able to read Classified but the reviews of it made it pretty clear that only minor things were changed. I ran JB007 for my normal D&D 3e group back in the day. One thing I changed was to switch the success levels so that the best success was a 4 and the lowest success was a 1. This way, I could use the level of success as a "number of successes" to facilitate longer skill tests that require 6 or 8 successes to complete (the "we'll protect you while you hack the computer" trope). I would have liked to have expanded this idea throughout the system where players could spend successes for certain benefits such as doing more damage with a punch or hitting a specific target with a shot.

Quote
If I wanted to do a modern-day movie like the Daniel Craig Bond movies, I'm still not sure that Classified is the right choice. I'd want to look further afield at different options.

Modern movies have car chases, shootouts, and fist fights, all of which are in the JB007 rules. I'm not sure what you'd need on top of that.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Steven Mitchell on October 15, 2021, 08:26:23 AM
I only have Classified.  Last time I saw the original was back in the 80's with a borrowed copy.  So no comparison from me.

As for Classified itself, on the plus side, it is a cleaned up, modestly streamlined version of the DragonQuest rules.  Which means there are a lot of details to latch onto.  On the negative side, it is a cleaned up, only modestly streamlined version of the DQ rules.  Which means there are a lot of details whether you want them or not.   ;D
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Godfather Punk on October 15, 2021, 08:29:46 AM
Quote
One thing I changed was to switch the success levels so that the best success was a 4 and the lowest success was a 1.
How did you apply the rules where the DF is determined by the Success Level (like e.g. the henchman making a Perception check with DF equal to the success level of a Stealth check)?
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 15, 2021, 10:45:23 AM
I own both the James Bond 007 RPG and the retro-clone of it, Classified.

I wasn't able to read Classified but the reviews of it made it pretty clear that only minor things were changed. I ran JB007 for my normal D&D 3e group back in the day. One thing I changed was to switch the success levels so that the best success was a 4 and the lowest success was a 1. This way, I could use the level of success as a "number of successes" to facilitate longer skill tests that require 6 or 8 successes to complete (the "we'll protect you while you hack the computer" trope). I would have liked to have expanded this idea throughout the system where players could spend successes for certain benefits such as doing more damage with a punch or hitting a specific target with a shot.

Quote
If I wanted to do a modern-day movie like the Daniel Craig Bond movies, I'm still not sure that Classified is the right choice. I'd want to look further afield at different options.

Modern movies have car chases, shootouts, and fist fights, all of which are in the JB007 rules. I'm not sure what you'd need on top of that.

A sensibility metter, punish being a ladies man and reward stronk independent wahmen that don't need no fish.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Tubesock Army on October 15, 2021, 10:50:14 AM
Classified is a very faithful clone of James Bond 007. There are only the most minor of changes. And the equipment lists are updated nicely. A solid, affordable way to have the best espionage RPG ever at your table. Fully compatible with all of the JB007 material "as-is". If you want the flavor of the films, of course there is no substitute for the OG game and its supplements. But for a nice, clean, new copy of the rules, Classified is great.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: hedgehobbit on October 15, 2021, 11:28:48 AM
How did you apply the rules where the DF is determined by the Success Level (like e.g. the henchman making a Perception check with DF equal to the success level of a Stealth check)?

It was a long time ago, but I don't remember any situation where you used the quality of success directly as an Ease Factor [I check page 41 of the JB007 rulebook and the EF for the Perception check is always 5]. Is this a change made for Classified?

For my game, I just had each character perform a check and the one with the most number of successes won. But, like I said, I'd have liked to expanded the rule. Perhaps allowing PCs to spend extra successes on reducing enemy EF values should be a general rule.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: Godfather Punk on October 15, 2021, 12:17:16 PM
It's been a while for me also :)
Victory Games version for me too.

I just found some the Skills chapter and in the Chase rules section:

Disguise "...Whenever a characters meets someone who might recognize any irregularities in the disguise, that observer gets a PER roll with an Ease Factor equal to the Quality Rating of the disguise..."

Force "..If (the Force) succeeds, the side being forced makes a Safety roll to avoid a mishap at an Ease Factor equal to the QR of the forcing player's dice result..."

Double Back  "... If the maneuver is successful, the range immediately becomes Close. Then, if the pursuers do not immediately successfully perform a Double Back maneuver at the Ease Factor equal to the Quality rating of the first characters' maneuver.."

I thought there were many more, like in the NPC Interaction chapter, but now I see they mostly use a series of tables to resolve.
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: jhkim on October 15, 2021, 12:26:33 PM
If I wanted to do a modern-day movie like the Daniel Craig Bond movies, I'm still not sure that Classified is the right choice. I'd want to look further afield at different options.

Modern movies have car chases, shootouts, and fist fights, all of which are in the JB007 rules. I'm not sure what you'd need on top of that.

There's a lot more in a 150-page rulebook than just the core resolution rules, though. If I only wanted rules for car chases, shootouts, and fist fights -- then I could use almost any system.

The JB007 core rules have a lot of stuff like random encounters, NPC generation, equipment, and more. I enjoyed those, and I felt they do well at emulating the feel of the 1980s Bond movies. There is a lot of style and flavor to all of that material.

In terms of core resolution, I think the biggest issue is gadgets as well as resolution rules for computer use. What were super-cool gadgets of the 1980s are now less impressive. James Bond himself still doesn't do much with computers, but in a superspy team like Mission Impossible, there's now usually a hacker - and dodging computerized surveillance is now a big part of the genre.

EDITED: to fix quoting
Title: Re: James Bond 007 RPG vs. Classified retro-clone
Post by: hedgehobbit on October 15, 2021, 06:53:28 PM
The JB007 core rules have a lot of stuff like random encounters, NPC generation, equipment, and more. I enjoyed those, and I felt they do well at emulating the feel of the 1980s Bond movies. There is a lot of style and flavor to all of that material.

I see what you mean. I only ran the published adventures (I found a huge stack of them at a used book store) so that kind of material wasn't much use to me.

There is another clones of JB007 called Double Zero. I followed it early on before the author got what we'd call today Bush Derangement Syndrome. Anyway, the first version came out in '07 and was a straight clone but the version that's is currently on DriveThru is dated 2020 and is more heavily modified and not compatible with JB007 anymore. There are a few supplements for it as well. Not 100% sure what was changed, but they added in a bunch of story-game mechanics (not that these are so out of place in JB007).