Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Clearly, you're a monster.

Welcome to Monster Island.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
Fair play. I've seen Tristram do that dance. I cut him some slack because I used to talk with him in private a lot, and I don't want to spill any tea since I know a lot of posters here cross pollinate...

Yeah, I get that mate, and that's fair.

Generally I don't have a problem with mods doing their job as long as it's done on a fair and level playing field. I also expect mods to be relitively honest, but I detest hypocrisy.

So when they want to get personal, and not allow me the right to do the same all while conveniently 'hiding' when I point that out publically followed by 'disappearing' some of my legitimate counter-arguments (like asking for proof of certain claims he was making) then you know you're dealing with a snake.

To be fair, I like the pub in general and I've no problem with the mods, for the most part. But it feels like you can't really have a good chat there so the atmosphere is pretty sterile as Shark said.  So I won't really miss posting there even though my ban has lifted.

What's really needed, IMO, is a place that's partway between here and the pub. Somewhere you can have a good conversation about the minutia of RPGs, the good and the bad without it devolving into constant mud-slinging. Now to be fair, I have engaged in a lot of that here myself. So I am part of the problem. When people get snippy with me they are getting it back (and it seems to escalate from there).

But on other forums, I'm pretty polite... That is until someone gets nasty. I respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

Greetings!

Rob, have you ever been in a retirement home? It definitely has the sterile atmosphere. The unpleasant smell of a mixture of old people, medicine, and cleaning chemicals. Meanwhile, everyone at such a place walks around acting like everything is normal--because they are used to it, and have become accustomed to such an environment. That imagery fits the Pub so well.

As I am generally quite polite, courteous, and friendly, I very much like positive environments. However, I'm also honest, and prefer speaking my mind, and just embracing a free-flowing conversation, more like people do at a bar or pub. Freedom of speech is important, and while two very different things can be true at the same time--on one hand, seemingly including politics in everything can itself seem boring--on the other hand, bootstomping and insisting on "No Politics!" actually arrests and controls speech and ideas--which then become boring, because there are so many illustrations, examples, and knowledge that can't therefore be shared. Politics, in many ways, *is* in everything. Political ideology, policies, consequences, flows into not merely politics,but education, grocery shopping, medicine, sports, entertainment, dating, everything.

You see extremes of control in places like the BigPurple, but also in EN World. I like places that have maximum freedom--like here.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That's true. But let's be clear - we understand what they're *trying* to do. The problem is our hobby is rife with it. The business decisions of even entering in the arena of publishing TTRPG's *demands* it, if your intent is to make money while doing so. I find their attempts at keeping things non-political increasingly silly. Whose feelings are we protecting at this point? The lines keep getting redefined by the left based on politics... See: Race Essentialism in D&D. See: Evil vs. Good, a White Supremacist Paradigm. etc. Normal people and anyone right of that point are expected to quietly not talk about it.

So let's call the spade a spade and get on with things. Pretending otherwise is not only foolish - it's ceding our hobby to the worst kinds of people. The last thing that we need is to start knifing one another over protecting the feelings of the very people ruining the hobby. The problem I have is pretending a problem isn't political when it damn well is, and obfuscating the conversation under some bogus pretense of "Forum rules".

In a slightly better world, sure we could and should be talking about cool things in gaming, debating the needs of Sacred Cows, Nerdzerking over editions... but we can't ignore the fact that politics are now dictating a lot of choices in our gaming consumption and habits. That is a FACT. And pretending that politics aren't a thing - is precisely what the activists want. And yes it bores me to tears to talk about WotC and basic-bitch arguments all the time... but they made it this way, they left their used condoms and needles on our Gaming Beach. Not us. And I sure as fuck ain't going to pretend it's not there, while I have some rainbow-haired GRIDS-infested moron's needle, hanging out of my big toe. This is my die-rolling Toe!

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 04:05:02 PMSo let's call the spade a spade

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/tee hee

The Pub reminds me of how humanities departments collapsed.  They are run by someone left of center, with a smattering of classical liberal attitudes but no particularly thoughtful philosophy, who when confronted with conflict between someone to their left and someone to their right will always declare the problem to be primarily the person to their right.  Unless the one to the left is overplays their hand and/or is too blatant, in which case they will declare both sides equally wrong.  That type is also usually deluded about just how left of center they themselves are, with some even clinging to the idea that they are "centrist".  There's usually one or two that understands the Overton Window and are deliberately using it to get what they want, while the rest will rigorously maintain a general clueless ignorance of it, even if they have to ban someone to do so.

A decade from now when the whole thing plays out to its obvious conclusions (assuming it is even around that long), the last one of the breed will bemoan how it came to their own banning, depart in sorrow, and immediately start trying to implement the same policies that led to this sorry state in their new home.   If they were capable of learning from this mistake from life experiences, they wouldn't be this way in the first place.  What was it that Buckley said?  "A conservative is a liberal that has been mugged," or something to that effect.  "Centrist" mods on gaming sights are liberals who get mugged repeatedly, and repeatedly blame everyone but the mugger.

So no, it's not absolutely insane how the TTRPG communities have become.  It's instead mind boggling, and a testament to the better aspects of human nature, that it takes so long to descend into the inevitable conclusion. 

Nailed it.

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Quote from: grimshwiz on January 03, 2023, 01:00:03 PMDan just made sure all my LL books go in the bin and any future GG purchases are going somewhere else. Good job for probably my favourite OSR game for the longest time.

While I FULLY support not giving them any more money, I've never understood the idea of trashing or giving away existing books in one's collection. I guess you now have a visceral reaction to everything they touched, even pre-woke?

No, I haven't played it in years, been using copies of B/X picked up over time to replace it. If I had a place to donate, I would but everyone around here only plays 5e.

Do you have those little free library boxes in your town?  I've dropped off used RPG stuff in those and it's always gone within a day.

I've had said my piece about the RPGPub's "no politics rule" before (and its 'like' system too) from the very beginning and foretold where that road ends. Consensus politeness over morality politeness never lets the bad blood out and lets the 'unspeakable' be used as a weapon and shield. It is latent corruption without recourse; vitriol released with possible forgiveness *IS* the recourse (but no one wants to learn that lesson).

That's why across many fora I am exceedingly lenient to vitriol as long as contrition and return to decorum is possible -- and in turn suspicious of the game of taboos and kudos. The former allows humans to be flawed and messy. Life is messy, power moreso, and its distribution is literally the definition of politics. The main restraint I prefer is don't leave your home a cesspit, sorta "don't let the sun set on your anger," return to cordiality ASAP, essentially Confucian emphasis on politeness and remembering our shared humanity. The latter game of taboos & kudos becomes a means to power, which *IS* politics, and all games of power end in tears and resets (or in these cases splits into new fora).

Like most of you I have longevity of acquaintence with many members there and here, and I could say the quality of discussion is lively in both. That said, I've had better, deeper, more fruitful discussions here than there due to the inherent structural difference I already stated and seems mutually observed by others here. I feel it at times like Star Wars Mos Eisley versus a genteel small town pub where everyone knows which church you attend; the dangerous rawness versus the stuffy passive aggression. Both have their draws, but don't let the safety of the latter fool you as the pushes and shoves are still there. You cannot polite the human out of us, you can only ask to return there after a human moment, and I find the rawness more honest and comfortable.

It fills a need and I genuinely care for many who post there. And they do try to moderate 'flexibly'... But it also played out how I expected, too. Such is life.  We can walk and chew gum, we can travel many circles.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 03, 2023, 01:13:27 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 03, 2023, 12:10:31 PMI respond far better to a carrot than I do a sick.

What if the sick has a bit of carrot in it?

Or a stick made of a carrot! Yum.

I keep meaning to start my own forum so I can ban myself whenever I get out of line.

Quote from: shoplifter on January 02, 2023, 05:54:47 PMSomething Awful

Jesus wept SA is a pack of viscous hatemongers and has been for several years now.

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 01:53:38 PM

Quote from: Monero on January 03, 2023, 11:46:30 AM
This message got me Perma banned from rpg.net in their TLG slander thread:

Quotehis is a good take by Troll Lord's. Game companies should just make games and stay out of politics. This shouldn't be a platform for activism, it's about entertainment and escapism.

I don't want to turn on CSPAN and listen to politicians wax on about min maxing character builds or discussing lore changes from campaign setting editions. They should stick to politics.

Pretty simple stuff that used to be the norm before social media ruined everything.

Clearly, you're a monster.

Welcome to Monster Island.

I like it.

Quote from: Monero on January 01, 2023, 11:02:49 AM
When the fuck did all this occur?

To paraphrase Don McLean, "When we were looking down."

I don't know, anyone who was on rpg.net twenty years ago should have seen it coming.  I think the ridiculously hard thing is that at some point big corporations embraced the idea that social media is a powerful tool and bought into the idea of influencers having far reaching impact and in embracing that idea they empowered the loudmouths and the shrieking lunatics.  I guess that's what we didn't see coming is the shift from the obnoxious and shrill Christian right to the obnoxious and shrill Communist Left.