Is/was Shadowrun the most widely played cyberpunk RPG?

JesterRaiin · February 25, 2016, 08:36:26 AM

Quote from: AsenRG;881184That was my experience as well. And I can run LotW without consulting the rulebook...
Really, the version of SR I experienced, either 4e or 5e, was lots of complexity for no or negative gain.

I hear that a lot. 4th was quite crunchy and not without its own problems, but in comparison to 5th it was quite reasonable, dare I say "acceptable".

5th? I can't comprehend how it's supposed to run without electronic combat managers. :idunno:

Quote from: AsenRG;881184There are always other new games. I prefer Fates Worse Than Death, myself;).
Hopefully, for most of them, it was moving abroad:D!

I didn't realize FWtD is CP! I was sure it's post-apo. Thanks man, I'm in constant need of more horror and CP games and sourcebooks.

AsenRG · February 25, 2016, 04:18:59 PM

FWTD is neocyberpunk. It actually begins with a comparison between the genres:).
When you add Price of Power supplement, though, you get lots of classical Cyberpunk tropes reintroduced and given an interesting look, though;).

JesterRaiin · February 25, 2016, 04:47:23 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;881375FWTD is neocyberpunk. It actually begins with a comparison between the genres:).
When you add Price of Power supplement, though, you get lots of classical Cyberpunk tropes reintroduced and given an interesting look, though;).

Neocyberpunk.

I'm old. It's officially confirmed. Woe is me.

ArrozConLeche · February 25, 2016, 04:49:48 PM

Is there a difference between neocyberpunk and post cyberpunk?

kosmos1214 · February 25, 2016, 05:57:49 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;881016snip
Not really, it doesn't.
It just excludes it from the crowd of cyberpunk RPGs while sending it to the crowd of kitchen sink fantasy RPGs.
And there it doesn't stand out. Like, at all;).

well i disagree for every person iv met who plays/ed a cyberpunk game most of them say shadowrun and most of them have never heard of cp2020 or its children.
its also worth noteing the 1st cyberpunk rpg i ever saw was a sr supliment and this was before i got in to rpgs but i still havent seen a copy of 2020 irl

Brander · February 25, 2016, 07:21:32 PM

Quote from: tenbones;880936I never understood the Shadowrun love. ...

CP2013/2020 however was rabidly played by us. I met a lot of new gamers that I'm still in contact with to this day.

CP does a really good job of hitting the high-points of the genre. I noticed while most noobs were concerned with maximum-metal cybered-up murder-hobos, I ran games that really homed in on the unease of class-warfare and the realities of life in the end-zones of those spectrums. Especially when the game roamed outside of the cities into the wastelands in-between and on the edges.
...

Even the games of SR that included the transgendered sex addict Fixer (created and run by a lesbian player, for what that's worth) tended to be "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" rather than anything approaching class warfare and the realities of the hard life. Some groups I played with preferred CP2013/2020 and others preferred Shadowrun, but all were mostly playing similarly themed games. I was only GM for about half those games, but that was what the players wanted to play and, frankly, we mostly had a lot of fun.

AsenRG · February 26, 2016, 03:51:42 AM

Quote from: kosmos1214;881397well i disagree for every person iv met who plays/ed a cyberpunk game most of them say shadowrun and most of them have never heard of cp2020 or its children.
its also worth noteing the 1st cyberpunk rpg i ever saw was a sr supliment and this was before i got in to rpgs but i still havent seen a copy of 2020 irl

I would answer to that if I could decypher what you mean. Alas, after "well, I disagree", I didn't manage to decrypt anything relevant to the discussion:).

Quote from: JesterRaiin;881380Neocyberpunk.

I'm old. It's officially confirmed. Woe is me.

Well, "neocyberpunk" is just what I called it last night. The book actually contains an analysis of the differences in genre. Here's the relevant page, from the publisher's site.
http://www.fatesworsethandeath.com/!fwtd/FWTD_vs_cyberpunk.pdf

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;881381Is there a difference between neocyberpunk and post cyberpunk?

I actually meant "postcyberpunk", but was posting late at night, and inadvertently created a term that is, for all I know, a neologism;). And on second thought, I'm not sure it's really post-cyberpunk, either.
More like "cyberpunk with a new take on it". See the link.

Omega · February 26, 2016, 04:52:32 AM

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;881381Is there a difference between neocyberpunk and post cyberpunk?

Neo impressionist post deconstructionist cyberpunk :cool:

Willie the Duck · February 26, 2016, 07:18:08 AM

Quote from: AsenRG;881471I actually meant "postcyberpunk", but was posting late at night, and inadvertently created a term that is, for all I know, a neologism;).

Does that make you sagacious or ultracrepidairan?

AsenRG · February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;881488Does that make you sagacious or ultracrepidairan?

And there I thought it makes me "tired at the time of posting"

.

ArrozConLeche · February 26, 2016, 11:40:37 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;881471I actually meant "postcyberpunk", but was posting late at night, and inadvertently created a term that is, for all I know, a neologism;). And on second thought, I'm not sure it's really post-cyberpunk, either.
More like "cyberpunk with a new take on it". See the link.

Hmm, I'm interested. I just wanted to be sure. It sort of sounded like a revival of the genre or something.

AsenRG · February 27, 2016, 02:29:35 PM

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;881662Hmm, I'm interested. I just wanted to be sure. It sort of sounded like a revival of the genre or something.

Yes, I think of FWTD as a new take of the genre, but that's me, not a literary analysis:). It also helps that the game has a quite realistic hacking system that actually solves "the Netrunner problem".

Besides, you can't beat the game for hope in the face of a gritty, unforgiving setting;).

Spoiler

In other cyberpunk settings you're shooting your way through corporate mooks using the latest military hardware, wearing body armour and in a van with tainted glasses.

In this setting, you're far more likely to be assaulting (submachine)gun-wielding criminals using a stick with a nail, which has on it the poison some street people are selling. Better hope it really was a Drake you bought that poison from, and not a fake... and that the bastard you're fighting isn't genetically modified to resist poisons. (Granted, most of them aren't, but some of the elites would be).

Post-combat worsening of your wounds? Check. Hope you'd get to the Black Med in time. But one of the songs in the game's soundtrack is named "bleeding to death on a deserted street". That's fiction that the mechanics support really well, and something few other games have.
Your enemies likely get corporate healthcare, though. You might be an illegal foreigner, or wanted by the authorities.

Dehumanisation through technology? There are people in the setting that no longer look human. Some of them are used as part of "hit squads" or for execution.

To compensate, you might want to learn to access your inner animal side, but then you also have to take care that it doesn't take over. Or you might end up roaming the streets and not knowing you're human.
Or you might want to set yourself apart by infecting yourself with vampirism, but that comes with its own drawbacks.
Others seal themselves in protective suits to ensure they're going to remain physically and spiritually pure. Coupled with a strict regimen, this allows them to almost equal someone who got a corp to pay for his operations, getting implanted muscles.

Yet people's ingenuity can still win. It has already, in the past.

Christopher Brady · February 27, 2016, 03:09:57 PM

You know, one of the biggest issues I had with Shadowrun has always been the Great Ghost Dance.

So, apparently, the natives has this super Magical nuke that's better than a nuke, and manages to wipe out most of the North America. So why aren't they in total control of the North American continent?

Oh, they could only do it once? Guess what? Most of the Nuclear Arsenal that the U.S. still has in setting? Still work! BOOM! Native American problem solved! Let's get back to business as usual!

The issue with a nuke level blasting is that unless you wipe out your enemies completely, and should they also have the same weapons, they WILL retaliate. Cuz some dumb bunny out there is going to want revenge, and will have the power to get it.

Omega · February 27, 2016, 04:18:28 PM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;881774You know, one of the biggest issues I had with Shadowrun has always been the Great Ghost Dance.

So, apparently, the natives has this super Magical nuke that's better than a nuke, and manages to wipe out most of the North America. So why aren't they in total control of the North American continent?

2009: Native Americans gain access to a nuclear silo and successfully launch a MIRV at Russia in protest.
2011: First elves express and a dragon is sighted. Magic starts to appear.
2014: Redondo Peak errupts and Los Alamos is buried in ash. Howling Coyote claims responsibility. A military strike force sent in is destroyed by tornadoes.
2017: in response to the US governments plan to exterminate all NA peoples the Ghost Dance is performed. Mt Hood, Ranier, St.Helens and Adams all errupted at once. Meanwhile NA resistance fighters are taking over military bases.
2018:Denver treaty is signed by America, Canada and Mexico conceeding just about all of the USA with the exception of California, Seattle and some other locales. And to relocate all non-NA off.
2021: Goblinization outbreaks of types begin expressing in people and animals.

Essentially they couldn't be nuked because there was no central government or infrastructure to target. That and you really cant fight mother nature with a nuke.

Christopher Brady · February 27, 2016, 06:55:46 PM

Quote from: Omega;8817822009: Essentially they couldn't be nuked because there was no central government or infrastructure to target. That and you really cant fight mother nature with a nuke.

Humans have been killing Mother Nature for millennia. One big burst of magic and we back off? No.