Quote from: Omega;882410And heres a funny observation. To date I've never seen anyone play a mage or shaman in Shadowrun.

To me, this observation is as bizarre as playing D&D and never seeing a Mage or Cleric character. Every group I've played Shadowrun with had at least one magically active character. And the one I'm in right now has two (a hermetic mage for astral security, and a voodoo houngan of the Loa Erzulie the Seductress as our face).

The reason the Great Ghost Dance isn't used often is because it's a Blood Magic ritual.  Every single one of the Great Ghost Dancers died, their life energy feeding the magic spell cast by Howling Coyote.  Remember, the US issued an Extermination Order against Native Americans and Megacorps were herding Natives into prison camps (which would have become death camps). They were dead if they didn't, so sacrificing themselves to get freedom for their people was worth the sacrifice.

We're willing to destroy ourselves if necessary - are you?  Metaphor for nuclear brinksmanship, with the Natives at Defcon 1, Howling Coyote has the football and his finger is on the button.

If there is a weak spot in any alternate history, it's always the break up of the US, because everyone has different opinions of what would and wouldn't happen, if someone would be that crazy or not, etc... and to be honest, a lot of the WHY's definitely don't get laid out until later.

Quote from: Itachi;882430To me, this observation is as bizarre as playing D&D and never seeing a Mage or Cleric character. Every group I've played Shadowrun with had at least one magically active character. And the one I'm in right now has two (a hermetic mage for astral security, and a voodoo houngan of the Loa Erzulie the Seductress as our face).

Yeah in my experience, if going against a hard target, a team will run with magical support always unless they can't find one or afford one.  However, not every company can afford to have a wagemage on site 100% of the time, so you don't "need" one for most things.

Quote from: Omega;882409It triggered the full scale expression of metas worldwide. So instead of a few elves at the time of the event. You had people mutating into orcs, trolls, elves, and dwarves, as well as vampires, wendigo, ghouls, and so on. As well as animals mutating too.

Not sure but it may have kickstarted the return of magic enough that after that hermetic magics were possible. Not to mention theres now five active volcanoes and swaths of surrounding devastation.

And eventually the elves kicked the NA out of a section of territory.

Mother nature and sister magic apparent appreciate irony.

Unexplained Genetic Expression (UGE) the term applied to mothers giving birth to what people called Elves and Dwarves happened in 2011.  
The Ghost Dance was in 2017.
Goblinization (what the media called UGE when Orks and Trolls came along) started in 2021.
All this would have happened anyway, the Ghost Dance didn't trigger any of that.  However, even if the Dance wasn't powerful enough to raise the entire Global level of mana, it did have an effect, one that would have to be dealt with 40 some years later.

Yeah, the NAN accepting elves, elves migrating to the Oregon area of NAN and then voting to secede and form their own country basically doing to them what they did to the US was part of Ehran's plan from the beginning, he was one of the key members of the early NAN in human form.

Quote from: Omega;882326Bugs and bacteria disagree. Lots. :eek:

Haha.  I always forget those little buggers.  Touche.

Quote from: CRKrueger;882436Unexplained Genetic Expression (UGE) the term applied to mothers giving birth to what people called Elves and Dwarves**

1n 1e it was just elves.
The rest I listed off was from 1e as well. So I'd guess that 2e or later changed some details?

Quote from: Omega;8826001n 1e it was just elves.
The rest I listed off was from 1e as well. So I'd guess that 2e or later changed some details?

Dwarves and Elves were always UGE, but Elves are a little more common and a lot of Dwarf babies were just assumed to be some other type of defect at first.  Dwarves weren't recognized as part of UGE at first.

The dates I gave are the same, I don't recall 1e ever saying that the Dance itself triggered meta gene expression.  A lot of the supplements are written from in game point of view, so someone on Shadowland certainly could have said that, I just don't recall.

Yes, Shadowrun is the most played Cyberpunk RPG, unless you count RIFTS as a cyberpunk RPG.

Quote from: Omega;882410And heres a funny observation. To date I've never seen anyone play a mage or shaman in Shadowrun.

this is an odd one i will admit

Quote from: RPGPundit;883510Yes, Shadowrun is the most played Cyberpunk RPG, unless you count RIFTS as a cyberpunk RPG.

So far. A cyberspace setting is one of the few things Rifts has not yet touched on. Least as of last time I looked at Rifts. Which was some time ago.

Quote from: Omega;883952So far. A cyberspace setting is one of the few things Rifts has not yet touched on. Least as of last time I looked at Rifts. Which was some time ago.

Sure, but it had cybernetics and hacking from the very first book. Not to mention the "Street Rat O.C.C."

Quote from: RPGPundit;884309Sure, but it had cybernetics and hacking from the very first book. Not to mention the "Street Rat O.C.C."

Yep. But oddly to date no actual cyberspace. Which is odd. At this point I think that is about the only thing Palladium hasnt covered.

Though Id prefer they did it as a standalone or at least its own world book.

Quote from: Omega;884392Yep. But oddly to date no actual cyberspace. Which is odd. At this point I think that is about the only thing Palladium hasnt covered.

Though Id prefer they did it as a standalone or at least its own world book.

Cyberspace stuff can be really tricky.  Make it too simple and there's nothing there (in fact, RIFTS does have a really basic and straightforward 'hacking' skill).  Make it too complex, and it eats away a party, as the one 'hacker' character gets two hours of playtime while everyone else sits around twiddling their thumbs.

Quote from: RPGPundit;885159Make it too complex, and it eats away a party, as the one 'hacker' character gets two hours of playtime while everyone else sits around twiddling their thumbs.

Or you drag the whole group along into cyberspace.

The whole "wah wah we is bored while the mean hacker is in the net!" falls really flat since said hacker has probably been waiting idle for the moment to do their thing.

Quote from: Omega;885195Or you drag the whole group along into cyberspace.

The whole "wah wah we is bored while the mean hacker is in the net!" falls really flat since said hacker has probably been waiting idle for the moment to do their thing.

How does that fall flat? The game was set up so that one player is relatively useless except in the rare instance when everyone else is. That's (for a lot of people) un-fun. Why wouldn't one complain about a game with that setup?