Quote from: Chris24601 on November 30, 2022, 08:00:46 AM

Quote from: Zelen on November 30, 2022, 01:21:19 AM
Complying with the OGL is easy, don't use some else's content that's not itself under OGL.

Or you make a system distinct enough from D&D to not need the OGL at all (ex. Palladium still uses d20's for combat, has attributes, hit points and levels, etc. but is far enough from D&D to have never needed any sort of license from TSR or WotC).

Frankly, I found that being restricted from using D&D content by not using the OGL was immensely helpful in freshening up my monster section as I had to go back to the actual myths and legends for inspiration instead of copy/pasting the same boring versions of monsters everyone else uses.

Unless that's actually what you want (ex. you're only interested in making and selling adventure modules for a system) then I would contend that if you're looking to make your own system you're better off taking the time to make the system different enough that it can pass what I informally call the "Palladium Test" and forego the OGL entirely.

The thing is, OGL has nothing directly to do with D&D. You don't need to forego OGL if you're making a different system, in fact that's even better. The OGL is simply a legal framework that ensures that someone using the content can engage with your (TTRPG) content in the collaborative, creative spirit that spawned the hobby.

Quote from: Zelen on November 30, 2022, 11:17:28 AM
The thing is, OGL has nothing directly to do with D&D. You don't need to forego OGL if you're making a different system, in fact that's even better. The OGL is simply a legal framework that ensures that someone using the content can engage with your (TTRPG) content in the collaborative, creative spirit that spawned the hobby.

Exactly there is a bunch of open content out there under the OGL that has nothing to do with D&D. The Legends RPG, Cepheus, Year Zero, etc.

Quote from: Chris24601 on November 30, 2022, 08:00:46 AM
Or you make a system distinct enough from D&D to not need the OGL at all (ex. Palladium still uses d20's for combat, has attributes, hit points and levels, etc. but is far enough from D&D to have never needed any sort of license from TSR or WotC).

What you mean is not using the D20 System Reference Document or the 5e System Reference Document in favor of your own original system.

Quote from: Chris24601 on November 30, 2022, 08:00:46 AM
Frankly, I found that being restricted from using D&D content by not using the OGL was immensely helpful in freshening up my monster section as I had to go back to the actual myths and legends for inspiration instead of copy/pasting the same boring versions of monsters everyone else uses.[/quote Well human beings are one of the things everyone else uses and somehow they managed not be same old boring version.

My creative choice is rather than lean into a stereotype I approach it that everything has a life as rich and diverse as people and creatures have on our planet. There are some things that all bears, orcs, and dragons share but there are plenty of things that make a specific bear, orc, or dragon different than all the others.

Quote from: Chris24601 on November 30, 2022, 08:00:46 AM
Unless that's actually what you want (ex. you're only interested in making and selling adventure modules for a system) then I would contend that if you're looking to make your own system you're better off taking the time to make the system different enough that it can pass what I informally call the "Palladium Test" and forego the OGL entirely.

I have a bit of experience with that issue with the publication of my Basic Rules for the Majestic Fantasy RPG which is 100% compatible with Swords & Wizardry.  The advantage of sticking with compatibility with Swords & Wizardry is that the material made for that popular retro-clone is compatible with stuff I make for the Majestic Fantasy RPG, and not I am not re-inventing the wheel for dozens of elements that are meant to be something distinct within the fantasy genre.

Instead I focus on the thing that I creatively care about and flesh those out. Save a lot of time and work for me along with the marketing advantages.

Looks like Pundit was both right and wrong. Wizards is cancelling the OGL, and OSR will be affected. No unauthorized new OSR projects, or any D&D compatible products, permitted after the new license comes into effect.

The web is buzzing with this news. There was the Gizmodo leak, and also a lawyer breaks it down here on ENWorld.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/hello-i-am-lawyer-with-a-psa-almost-everyone-is-wrong-about-the-ogl-and-srd-clearing-up-confusion.694192/

QuoteThere is nothing about the OGL that makes it so Wizards can never revoke it. Some language, at first glance, may appear to contradict this claim. But it doesn't. For instance, the license states that WotC grants the licensee "a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive license" to use the SRD. But "perpetual," in licensing law, does not mean "irrevocable." In fact, unless the word "irrevocable" appears in the license, the license can be revoked at any time, for any reason or for no reason.

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 02:56:15 AM
and also a lawyer breaks it down here on ENWorld.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/hello-i-am-lawyer-with-a-psa-almost-everyone-is-wrong-about-the-ogl-and-srd-clearing-up-confusion.694192/

QuoteThere is nothing about the OGL that makes it so Wizards can never revoke it. Some language, at first glance, may appear to contradict this claim. But it doesn't. For instance, the license states that WotC grants the licensee "a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, nonexclusive license" to use the SRD. But "perpetual," in licensing law, does not mean "irrevocable." In fact, unless the word "irrevocable" appears in the license, the license can be revoked at any time, for any reason or for no reason.

Although you'll see in the comments there that me and a bunch of other law guys don't agree with his analysis. Although it's impossible to know for sure.

Quote from: S'mon on January 06, 2023, 04:51:44 AM
Although you'll see in the comments there that me and a bunch of other law guys don't agree with his analysis. Although it's impossible to know for sure.

I hope you are right, but a consensus is forming among knowledgable lawyers that 1.0 can be revoked, and will be.

Recent rumors are that the universal revocation was in an earlier draft, and WotC may have settled on just writing a 'we renounce the OGL 1.0a, and all its works, and all its pomps' into the OGL 1.1 and tying that to the D&DOne SRD.

That may give folks using the OGL 1.0a a bit of breathing room, but after this leak, I don't think anyone's going to have long-term confidence in it. I expect to see a lot of reworking and migration from many companies to get away from the OGL and original SRD and replace them with more secure alternatives.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 06, 2023, 08:20:29 AM
Recent rumors are that the universal revocation was in an earlier draft, and WotC may have settled on just writing a 'we renounce the OGL 1.0a, and all its works, and all its pomps' into the OGL 1.1 and tying that to the D&DOne SRD.

That may give folks using the OGL 1.0a a bit of breathing room, but after this leak, I don't think anyone's going to have long-term confidence in it. I expect to see a lot of reworking and migration from many companies to get away from the OGL and original SRD and replace them with more secure alternatives.

Hopefully for the OSR's sake you're correct.

On the other hand, here's an actual IP lawyer's take; https://medium.com/@MyLawyerFriend/lets-take-a-minute-to-talk-about-d-d-s-open-gaming-license-ogl-581312d48e2f
; which says, yeah, 1.0 is probably revocable (though this might be challengable, it would have to court and would mostly hinge on the duration 1.0a has been in effect and the suddenness of its revocation).

Legally, WotC absolutely could try to cut the OGL portion of the RPG industry off at the knees. The only real question is whether someone convinced them of the disastrous PR hit this would cause to the launch of OneD&D if they tried to nuke the OGL1.0a from orbit.

But they were, all of them, deceived, for another D&D was made. In the land of Washington State in the fires of Seattle, Hasbro forged in secret a master Role-Playing Game, to control all others. And into this game they poured their cruelty, their malice and their will to dominate all life...

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on January 06, 2023, 09:34:11 AM
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another D&D was made. In the land of Washington State in the fires of Seattle, Hasbro forged in secret a master Role-Playing Game, to control all others. And into this game they poured their cruelty, their malice and their will to dominate all life...

Did that joke already...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 14, 2022, 01:45:07 PM
Good grief. Did idiot pills become standard issue at WotC/Hasbro?

They hired tech executives in gaming to run D&D, what did you think would happen?  I worked corporate for a large games publisher, I'm familiar with the execs mentality when it comes to generating money.  They have a short term, how to figure out who are the whales, dolphins and minnows and extract the most wealth from them.  They do not think about the game itself, they just want the quants to come up with algos to wring out short term gains.  We have that mentality at D&D now, they are not looking at history or what will be mid to long term gains.

IF, and this is a big IF, they don't sign deals with Critical Roll and Acquisition Incorporated and they go to other systems and rebel, then D&D will have problems.  I doubt there is more than 10% of their audience who become long term players of D&D, however they do buy the players handbook and a few other books, play online a few times and quit, however those are sales that D&D never would have had from that 90% of LARPING idiot type of fan who just like watching a TV Show but don't want to game.

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 06:50:00 AM

Quote from: S'mon on January 06, 2023, 04:51:44 AM
Although you'll see in the comments there that me and a bunch of other law guys don't agree with his analysis. Although it's impossible to know for sure.

I hope you are right, but a consensus is forming among knowledgable lawyers that 1.0 can be revoked, and will be.

Looks more like 70% to non-revocable to me. More discussion in that thread. Anyway it looks now like they may not be trying to pull the OGL for everyone - https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-ogl-just-whats-going-on.694193/post-8880520 - if it's opt-in, yes they can do that.

Quote from: S'mon on January 06, 2023, 10:19:07 AM
Looks more like 70% to non-revocable to me. More discussion in that thread. Anyway it looks now like they may not be trying to pull the OGL for everyone - https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-ogl-just-whats-going-on.694193/post-8880520 - if it's opt-in, yes they can do that.

Sure and exactly one the initial condition of 4's Game System License was So it is not even a new tactic. And will go over as well as a lead balloon not built by the Mythbusters will.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 09:42:00 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on January 06, 2023, 09:34:11 AM
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another D&D was made. In the land of Washington State in the fires of Seattle, Hasbro forged in secret a master Role-Playing Game, to control all others. And into this game they poured their cruelty, their malice and their will to dominate all life...

Did that joke already...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

The funny thing is that this joke was made when the OGL and SRD first appeared in 2000. At least on my corner of the world, people were thinking that it was a trap to kill all other RPGs.

Quote from: zer0th on January 07, 2023, 08:56:54 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 09:42:00 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on January 06, 2023, 09:34:11 AM
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another D&D was made. In the land of Washington State in the fires of Seattle, Hasbro forged in secret a master Role-Playing Game, to control all others. And into this game they poured their cruelty, their malice and their will to dominate all life...

Did that joke already...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

The funny thing is that this joke was made when the OGL and SRD first appeared in 2000. At least on my corner of the world, people were thinking that it was a trap to kill all other RPGs.

Kevin Seimbedia of Palladium Books also thought it was a trap and refused to let any part of his creations touch the OGL despite fans begging him to get onboard.

I bet he's laughing his ass off right now.