Quote from: David Johansen on November 15, 2022, 01:58:25 PMEven what would be a trickle to WotC is like a flood to the rest of the market.

You would need a significant portion of the D&D 5e player base to jump ship to create a company that could rival 1D&D.

However, I don't think that is really a concern for Hasbro. The current business model for RPGs is that a DM will buy a few books a year to support the campaign while the players might buy one or two player books at the start to join.

The new model would be getting all the players to pay a monthly fee to continue to play. Four players paying $10 a month for 1D&D is much better for Hasbro than one DM buying a couple of books a year.

So even if Hasbro loses a significant number of players they can still come out on top.

Pathfinder was not an alternative 4e but an alternative to continue with 3e. A company will not have to make an alternative to 1DnD but simply offer an alternative way to continue with 5e that everyone already knows.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 15, 2022, 04:58:22 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on November 15, 2022, 01:58:25 PMEven what would be a trickle to WotC is like a flood to the rest of the market.

You would need a significant portion of the D&D 5e player base to jump ship to create a company that could rival 1D&D.

However, I don't think that is really a concern for Hasbro. The current business model for RPGs is that a DM will buy a few books a year to support the campaign while the players might buy one or two player books at the start to join.

The new model would be getting all the players to pay a monthly fee to continue to play. Four players paying $10 a month for 1D&D is much better for Hasbro than one DM buying a couple of books a year.

So even if Hasbro loses a significant number of players they can still come out on top.

Most players don't buy. Are they all really going to start paying when they can just play on roll20 or handle the rules themselves?

Nothing happens all at once. WotC has to build up their VTT first.

The next thing that happens is WotC pulls support for D&D from all the other VTT platforms. Don't want any competition. Depending on how current contracts are written, that may not fuck with any existing 5E content that's already out there. This doesn't happen all at once, it takes place in stages over several years.

Without the D&D audience, the other VTT platforms go tits-up. It isn't likely that they all die, at least one of them probably survives. There isn't enough non-D&D money to sustain all of them, though.

This will end up with the curious situation where people are paying WotC a subscription fee to play Pathfinder, because all of the art assets are compatible.

Boycott WotC products.

Has anyone seen the lates oned&d development?  I have 't seen or heard anything on the digital end.  Just rediculous rule changes. 

I don't think they are going to have their virtual tabletop up an running for some time yet.

It apparently came across that Dragon+ was pulled from app stores, and is no longer available for download. While Dragon was a shadow of its former self, it's probably going to become a product kept behind a subscription model, with D&D Beyond. Seems WOTC doesn't even want a glorified newsletter to be free.

Should be interesting with all the changes. I'll be curious to see if this truly does become 4e/Pathfinder again.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on November 15, 2022, 09:30:10 PM
Has anyone seen the lates oned&d development?  I have 't seen or heard anything on the digital end.  Just rediculous rule changes. 

I don't think they are going to have their virtual tabletop up an running for some time yet.

5e went through quite a few changes during playtest as well.

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 15, 2022, 09:37:19 PM
It apparently came across that Dragon+ was pulled from app stores, and is no longer available for download. While Dragon was a shadow of its former self, it's probably going to become a product kept behind a subscription model, with D&D Beyond. Seems WOTC doesn't even want a glorified newsletter to be free.

Should be interesting with all the changes. I'll be curious to see if this truly does become 4e/Pathfinder again.

According to sources. WOTC discontinued Dragon+ this April. Despite claims. Nothing was actually moved over to D&D Beyond that I can see.

The thing that raised my eyebrows, if it's true, is that the Dungeoncraft video where he claims that Hasbro tried to sell WotC last year to an outside firm but failed because (presumably Woke) board members staved off the buyout.

Clearly this has been on the minds of folks at Hasbro for a while. The fact that WotC was even potentially up for sale, means they knew this was coming. They're suffering not just from WotC but their licenses to Marvel are starting to hurt them as well. Price-gouging on collectibles seems to be across the board on top of Woke-infected products not living up to their brands potential.

Interesting times.

Quote from: tenbones on November 16, 2022, 01:00:37 PM
The thing that raised my eyebrows, if it's true, is that the Dungeoncraft video where he claims that Hasbro tried to sell WotC last year to an outside firm but failed because (presumably Woke) board members staved off the buyout.

Clearly this has been on the minds of folks at Hasbro for a while. The fact that WotC was even potentially up for sale, means they knew this was coming. They're suffering not just from WotC but their licenses to Marvel are starting to hurt them as well. Price-gouging on collectibles seems to be across the board on top of Woke-infected products not living up to their brands potential.

Interesting times.

Except they're both unsubstantiated rumors created by suspect sources?

Quote from: Omega on November 16, 2022, 10:48:10 AM

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 15, 2022, 09:37:19 PM
It apparently came across that Dragon+ was pulled from app stores, and is no longer available for download. While Dragon was a shadow of its former self, it's probably going to become a product kept behind a subscription model, with D&D Beyond. Seems WOTC doesn't even want a glorified newsletter to be free.

Should be interesting with all the changes. I'll be curious to see if this truly does become 4e/Pathfinder again.

According to sources. WOTC discontinued Dragon+ this April. Despite claims. Nothing was actually moved over to D&D Beyond that I can see.

They just pulled everything yesterday. I'm assuming in the coming months they will roll out its replacement.

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 16, 2022, 02:22:24 PM

Quote from: Omega on November 16, 2022, 10:48:10 AM

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 15, 2022, 09:37:19 PM
It apparently came across that Dragon+ was pulled from app stores, and is no longer available for download. While Dragon was a shadow of its former self, it's probably going to become a product kept behind a subscription model, with D&D Beyond. Seems WOTC doesn't even want a glorified newsletter to be free.

Should be interesting with all the changes. I'll be curious to see if this truly does become 4e/Pathfinder again.

According to sources. WOTC discontinued Dragon+ this April. Despite claims. Nothing was actually moved over to D&D Beyond that I can see.

They just pulled everything yesterday. I'm assuming in the coming months they will roll out its replacement.

The old Dragon+ link now redirects you to the Beyond page. wow.

Quote from: Omega on November 17, 2022, 05:08:37 AM

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 16, 2022, 02:22:24 PM

Quote from: Omega on November 16, 2022, 10:48:10 AM

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 15, 2022, 09:37:19 PM
It apparently came across that Dragon+ was pulled from app stores, and is no longer available for download. While Dragon was a shadow of its former self, it's probably going to become a product kept behind a subscription model, with D&D Beyond. Seems WOTC doesn't even want a glorified newsletter to be free.

Should be interesting with all the changes. I'll be curious to see if this truly does become 4e/Pathfinder again.

According to sources. WOTC discontinued Dragon+ this April. Despite claims. Nothing was actually moved over to D&D Beyond that I can see.

They just pulled everything yesterday. I'm assuming in the coming months they will roll out its replacement.

The old Dragon+ link now redirects you to the Beyond page. wow.

It had just happened not long before I made my first post on this thread.

Makes me wonder if WOTC will continue to use the DMsGuild, or whether they might be making a move to transition everything D&D under one roof, cutting out every middle man they've had to deal with. This reeks of much of the choices WOTC were attempting to make back in 2007/2008.

I'm also wondering if this will kill any third party interest in the same way the purge in 2008 destroyed the entire 3.5/d20 Modern industry that had sprung up over eight years. I'm already thinking of the various Kickstarters, etc that have products finishing up, being sent out for an edition that won't be supported soon.

Tim will tell.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 15, 2022, 04:58:22 PM

Quote from: David Johansen on November 15, 2022, 01:58:25 PMEven what would be a trickle to WotC is like a flood to the rest of the market.

You would need a significant portion of the D&D 5e player base to jump ship to create a company that could rival 1D&D.

It seems you're falling into the fallacy of thinking that once we overthrow the dark lord we're going to want another one.