Quote from: Chris24601 on January 07, 2023, 09:04:57 AM

Quote from: zer0th on January 07, 2023, 08:56:54 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 06, 2023, 09:42:00 AM

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on January 06, 2023, 09:34:11 AM
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another D&D was made. In the land of Washington State in the fires of Seattle, Hasbro forged in secret a master Role-Playing Game, to control all others. And into this game they poured their cruelty, their malice and their will to dominate all life...

Did that joke already...

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 19, 2022, 08:09:52 AM

"One D&D to rule them all.
One D&D to find them.
One D&D to bring them all,
and in the Wokeness bind them."

The funny thing is that this joke was made when the OGL and SRD first appeared in 2000. At least on my corner of the world, people were thinking that it was a trap to kill all other RPGs.

Kevin Seimbedia of Palladium Books also thought it was a trap and refused to let any part of his creations touch the OGL despite fans begging him to get onboard.

I bet he's laughing his ass off right now.

Palladium is a mostly irrelevant player in the RPG scene today, not sure there is anyone around to hear his laughter

Quote from: estar on November 30, 2022, 11:57:11 AM
Exactly there is a bunch of open content out there under the OGL that has nothing to do with D&D. The Legends RPG, Cepheus, Year Zero, etc.

Why didn't a group of companies get together and create their own OGL free of WotC for this sort of thing? Certainly Mongoose had enough money to hire a lawyer to take the OGL and duplicate it in function. I'm sure that'll happen now but it would be nice to have had it done 20 years ago. If I can ever get my Hot Tub Time Machine working again that's one of the things I'll be doing.

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 02:56:15 AM
Looks like Pundit was both right and wrong. Wizards is cancelling the OGL, and OSR will be affected. No unauthorized new OSR projects, or any D&D compatible products, permitted after the new license comes into effect.

I thought the OGL couldn't be revoked and once it was out it was out.  How did Wizards get around that?

Quote from: SirFrog on January 07, 2023, 10:02:18 AM

Palladium is a mostly irrelevant player in the RPG scene today, not sure there is anyone around to hear his laughter

'

Have they put out anything new anytime recently or are they just doing reprints and making supplements?

Quote from: GhostNinja on January 07, 2023, 12:01:13 PM

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 02:56:15 AM
Looks like Pundit was both right and wrong. Wizards is cancelling the OGL, and OSR will be affected. No unauthorized new OSR projects, or any D&D compatible products, permitted after the new license comes into effect.

I thought the OGL couldn't be revoked and once it was out it was out.  How did Wizards get around that?

By stating 1.1 is an update to 1.0a and further stating 1.0a is unauthorized therefore invalid.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 07, 2023, 12:13:27 PM

By stating 1.1 is an update to 1.0a and further stating 1.0a is unauthorized therefore invalid.

I thought there was something on their website that said that the OGL could never be revoked.  I know Wizards/Hasbro has the money to get the best lawyers but I could have sworn that even Wizards said it couldn't be revoked.  Then again, that may have been before Hasbro bought them.

Quote from: GhostNinja on January 07, 2023, 12:16:20 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 07, 2023, 12:13:27 PM

By stating 1.1 is an update to 1.0a and further stating 1.0a is unauthorized therefore invalid.

I thought there was something on their website that said that the OGL could never be revoked.  I know Wizards/Hasbro has the money to get the best lawyers but I could have sworn that even Wizards said it couldn't be revoked.  Then again, that may have been before Hasbro bought them.

I posted a very TLDR of what is floating around for reasoning on how WOTC is getting around the "can not be revoked" clause.

See other posts for more details.  All will
Be revealed on Jan 13th when the new license is revealed. 

As for other OGL options out there: mork borg is one. 

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 07, 2023, 12:21:17 PM

I posted a very TLDR of what is floating around for reasoning on how WOTC is getting around the "can not be revoked" clause.

See other posts for more details.  All will
Be revealed on Jan 13th when the new license is revealed. 

As for other OGL options out there: mork borg is one.

I appreciate the information.  I am reading all of the threads and trying to absorb all of the information, not to mention watching videos talking about the situation.

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 06:50:00 AM


I hope you are right, but a consensus is forming among knowledgable lawyers that 1.0 can be revoked, and will be.

No, it's not. If you look, it's like 3 to 1 against that view in terms of attorneys chiming in. There is definitely no consensus forming among knowledgeable lawyers in that direction.

Quote from: GhostNinja on January 07, 2023, 12:16:20 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 07, 2023, 12:13:27 PM

By stating 1.1 is an update to 1.0a and further stating 1.0a is unauthorized therefore invalid.

I thought there was something on their website that said that the OGL could never be revoked.  I know Wizards/Hasbro has the money to get the best lawyers but I could have sworn that even Wizards said it couldn't be revoked.  Then again, that may have been before Hasbro bought them.

Yes, there's even an archive of the FAQ where WotC says it can never be revoked. That Hasbro owned them then or not is of no consecuence, you buy the company with ALL of the bagagge.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2023, 12:30:24 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on January 07, 2023, 12:16:20 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 07, 2023, 12:13:27 PM

By stating 1.1 is an update to 1.0a and further stating 1.0a is unauthorized therefore invalid.

I thought there was something on their website that said that the OGL could never be revoked.  I know Wizards/Hasbro has the money to get the best lawyers but I could have sworn that even Wizards said it couldn't be revoked.  Then again, that may have been before Hasbro bought them.

Yes, there's even an archive of the FAQ where WotC says it can never be revoked. That Hasbro owned them then or not is of no consecuence, you buy the company with ALL of the bagagge.

It was up well into while Hasbro owned them. I think that particular FAQ was only taken down a few years ago when they did a complete website revamp and removed a bunch of older materials. Copies can still be found all over the place on the web.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2023, 12:30:24 PM
Yes, there's even an archive of the FAQ where WotC says it can never be revoked. That Hasbro owned them then or not is of no consequence, you buy the company with ALL of the baggage.

Yep, I guess if you have all that money and all of those lawyers they think they can do what they want.

Quote from: Mistwell on January 07, 2023, 12:48:05 PM
It was up well into while Hasbro owned them. I think that particular FAQ was only taken down a few years ago when they did a complete website revamp and removed a bunch of older materials. Copies can still be found all over the place on the web.

Yeah, someone in a video said that.  But Hasbro has money and lawyers so they pretty much think they can ignore the rules and don't care about their fans.  They can do whatever and enough of their fans won't be bothered and stick with them.

Quote from: Mistwell on January 07, 2023, 12:26:42 PM

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 06:50:00 AM


I hope you are right, but a consensus is forming among knowledgable lawyers that 1.0 can be revoked, and will be.

No, it's not. If you look, it's like 3 to 1 against that view in terms of attorneys chiming in. There is definitely no consensus forming among knowledgeable lawyers in that direction.

Perhaps among general lawyers, who always make the "I'm not an IP expert" caveat to their analysis.

Among the ones with actual IP expertise pretty much all of them say Hasbro absolutely can, and one of the top IP attorneys in the country who is also familiar with Hasbro says their legal team is loaded for bear and out for blood to reclaim the D&D IP from all third parties... and you'd need $2-3 million and 3-4 years just to get it in front of a judge with the type of lawfare they intend to unleash.

But keep smoking that Hopium... I'm sure it'll all work out. [/sarc]

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 07, 2023, 01:22:29 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on January 07, 2023, 12:26:42 PM

Quote from: thornad on January 06, 2023, 06:50:00 AM


I hope you are right, but a consensus is forming among knowledgable lawyers that 1.0 can be revoked, and will be.

No, it's not. If you look, it's like 3 to 1 against that view in terms of attorneys chiming in. There is definitely no consensus forming among knowledgeable lawyers in that direction.

Perhaps among general lawyers, who always make the "I'm not an IP expert" caveat to their analysis.

Among the ones with actual IP expertise pretty much all of them say Hasbro absolutely can, and one of the top IP attorneys in the country who is also familiar with Hasbro says their legal team is loaded for bear and out for blood to reclaim the D&D IP from all third parties... and you'd need $2-3 million and 3-4 years just to get it in front of a judge with the type of lawfare they intend to unleash.

But keep smoking that Hopium... I'm sure it'll all work out. [/sarc]

Er, it's not really an IP issue, it's a Contract & Licencing issue.  The question is whether this kind of 'perpetual' licence can be revoked.

"one of the top IP attorneys in the country who is also familiar with Hasbro says their legal team is loaded for bear and out for blood" That is not the same as saying they'd win in court. Amacris' buddy is saying they're willing to drown opponents in lawfare costs.

I teach both IP & Contract, English law but everything the US lawyers have said indicates US contract law is very similar here. I think WoTC have a weak case. That doesn't mean they can't inflict pain via lawfare. Although if it's as bad as Amacris' friend said, I wonder how eg Chapterhouse could stand up to Games Workshop. This case looks quite a lot simpler than that one.