Quote from: HinterWelt;255841



E) All of the above.

Corrected your typo.



Cabin-squirrel.

Bill

Dude. You just gone done D) Luckily squirrels aren't that controversial.

Quote from: jhkim;255839I'd basically agree with that -- though to be clear, it's not like traditional games never encourage certain behavior.

Which is why i limited myself to saying "most." I'm not setting this up just as a system matters vs trad thing, here, i ain't the pundido.

QuoteBut this is quite different from RPGPundit's argument in his blog.  His argument is that (1) story games are increasingly sexualizing RPGs; and (2) that sexualizing a hobby will lead to its being reviled.  

Are you also saying that any sexualized material in RPGs is bad?  If not, what RPGs are you saying are bad?  

You are right, it is different (although this thread wasn't started with the express purpose stated that this was the sole subject). If you've read my points, i should hope you know what i'm saying and about what games. If the RPG in question forces you into an outcome at the table and that outcome is dodgy at best, and screwed, at worst - i am saying it is the author's responsibility that play got there.

I have to say, I'm very impressed with the way people have responded to Fritzs' stupid (loaded) question. Well done, all!

RPGPundit

Quote from: walkerp;255811I just find it depressing to find all this kneejerk moralism in a scene that was once such a targeted victim of kneejerk moralism.  It's like the christian right ended up infiltrating gaming instead of trying to shut it down.

Geek social fallacy: "because we were once unfairly picked on, we can't possibly now pick on anyone else, even if they deserve to be!"

Bullshit.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Fritzs;255813It happen all the time... once the common enemy disappears people start searching for next one to fill the gap and usually ends up "finding" one in their own ranks.

You ARE the enemy. You are not from "our ranks". You never were. You and the filth that are like you have never had any sincere interest in doing right by this hobby. You're here to aggrandize your own undeserved egos, and you don't give a fuck if you destroy gaming to do it.

You are Swine. You have nothing to do with a regular gamer, you have nothing in common with me, and you deserve only to be shown how much of a fuckhead you are at the point of my knife of Truth.

RPGPundit

Quote from: GrimGent;255815It is an interesting comparison, though. Because some folks who took their religion pretty seriously back in the Eighties had heard that D&D included evil magicians and summoned demons, they arrived to the conclusion that it must be denounced as an artifact of "satanic devil worship." Now actual gamers who are only familiar with Maid from forum discussions such as this seem to be talking about how it must just as obviously be a game about "underage maid rape" because it involves (possibly) underage characters and (optional) seduction rules. The whole thing is blown out of all proportion in exactly the same fashion.

No, not exactly. One key difference is that those criticizing Maid are people on the INSIDE of the hobby.

And of course, those pushing Maid (and all the other questionable games) are people who are really on the outside of the hobby trying to infiltrate it.

So a more apt comparison in all this would be the time those Religious Conservatives made an RPG about memorizing bible verses.  Its a group of ideological fanatics trying to change RPGs, and normal RPG folk saying "no".

RPGPundit

Quote from: Koltar;255823Unfortunately, I cannot read the current Pundit blog entries. The strange color choice of some kind of orange text on blacl is too rough on my eyes.

Pundit, it world be REALLY nice if you could change the current color settings on the blog.


- Ed C.

Check on Jan. 1st(to 3rd). I change my look once a year.

RPGPundit

Quote from: jhkim;255839I'd basically agree with that -- though to be clear, it's not like traditional games never encourage certain behavior.  But this is quite different from RPGPundit's argument in his blog.  His argument is that (1) story games are increasingly sexualizing RPGs; and (2) that sexualizing a hobby will lead to its being reviled.  

Are you also saying that any sexualized material in RPGs is bad?  If not, what RPGs are you saying are bad?  

I'd disagree with both of Pundit's points.  Based on my experience, if I pick up a random traditional RPG and a random story game, I'm about equally likely to find mildly sexualized material (i.e. racy pictures, a seduction skill); and also about equally likely to find rare actual references to sex.  

Moreover, some of my favorite RPGs are sexualized -- like the James Bond 007 RPG, Teenagers from Outer Space, and Macho Women With Guns.  I do disapprove of a lot of sexualization, but it's not that I find any sexualization bad.  It can be badly done, but it's not inherently bad.

As usual, you've misinterpreted what I've said.  Its not that sexuality itself (or racy pictures, or the like) will lead to the hobby being reviled. Its that deviant or anti-social sexuality introduced in Forger games will attract deviants and social-retards who will in turn made the hobby reviled.

We ALL know that we aren't talking about bikini chainmail babes here, or James Bond innuendo. We're talking about 10 year old girls being raped with broomsticks and cabin boys being violated in their neck-holes by pirates.
That's what will get us reviled.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Age of Fable;255848Wait...what? Really?

Yes, really.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;255864And of course, those pushing Maid (and all the other questionable games) are people who are really on the outside of the hobby trying to infiltrate it.

As far as I'm concerned, there is my hobby and all those other people I don't play with. You, for instance.

And as somebody who associates with 'normal', 'mainstream' people on a regular basis (rather than geekazoids like you), it seems to me that a game like Poison'd doesn't raise any more eyebrows than a game like Pendragon.

Quote from: RPGPundit;255866As usual, you've misinterpreted what I've said.  Its not that sexuality itself (or racy pictures, or the like) will lead to the hobby being reviled. Its that deviant or anti-social sexuality introduced in Forger games will attract deviants and social-retards who will in turn made the hobby reviled.

We ALL know that we aren't talking about bikini chainmail babes here, or James Bond innuendo. We're talking about 10 year old girls being raped with broomsticks and cabin boys being violated in their neck-holes by pirates.
That's what will get us reviled.

RPGPundit

I find it difficult to believe that intelligent people here cannot or will not see this very obvious distinction in this discussion:  sexualization of children in any RPG is wrong and will lead to negative attention on gamers and the industry.  

In light of my disbelief, I have to assume that these people are trolls, playing devil's advocate, or are Joker disciples.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou ARE the enemy. You are not from "our ranks". You never were. You and the filth that are like you have never had any sincere interest in doing right by this hobby. You're here to aggrandize your own undeserved egos, and you don't give a fuck if you destroy gaming to do it.

You are Swine. You have nothing to do with a regular gamer, you have nothing in common with me, and you deserve only to be shown how much of a fuckhead you are at the point of my knife of Truth.

RPGPundit

Oink!? I feels great to be hated, not as great as being loved for sure, but still it's great feeling, it makes you feel all important and stuff... I am bit scared of your big nasty knife of Truth, but you can't stab me trought internet.

Quote from: Drohem;255871In light of my disbelief, I have to assume that these people are trolls, playing devil's advocate, or are Joker disciples.

I'll take #3. But seriously, folks: society at large doesn't give a shit about 'the industry'. They barely know it exists. Poobutt's War on Swinery is not even an amusing anecdote for most of my friends, it's a blank stare and a change of the subject.

My non-RPG friends make jokes about me going to play sex games on RP night. Let me see, I could whine and say "But that's not what we DOo!". I could laugh nervously and say "Heh, heh, yeah, right!" Or I could wear it like the usual friendly ribbing.

Shortly after I'd begun playing RPGs, we made up rules for penis size, staying power and the like. My friend Martin also made up the 'Syph-monster' (think chancres). It says more about us as teenagers than it does about the game (although the presence of extensive tables does encourage the creation of more tables in my view).

Presently, my meatspace friends tend to be middle-aged, employed, and with children. It's my experience that they are more interested in the small and quirky games than they are in eg RuneQuest, Pendragon or god forbid D&D. YMMV, of course.

Quote from: David R;255850All this is really dumb. After all the Elmore, Caldwell and Mongoose art is there any doubt that this hobby isn't sexualized ? Let's not forget Exalted....wait nearly any White Wolf game.

From the First Fantasy Campaign's (Blackmoor) inclusion of slaves as a pleasure category (female slaves categorized as red or white silk), the magical item Entertainer ("Any jolly you ever wanted, and some that might kill you"), women ("slaves of the appropriate type (left to player)") as one of the special interests gp is spent on before xp is rewarded, and Egg of Coot's creed starting with "Might is Right" and continuing on for some time before going into a summary / fade to black since "the rest of the Creed is a bit too strong for our gentile readers and deal with certain "Breeding priviledges and customs"."

Or stuff like:


Wilderlands and Empire of the Petal Throne (esp. Book of Ebon Bindings).

Quote from: droog;255880Shortly after I'd begun playing RPGs, we made up rules for penis size, staying power and the like. My friend Martin also made up the 'Syph-monster' (think chancres).

There must've been hundreds of homebrewed prostitute classes...each one the most hilarious and original thing ever.