That's two questions. I'm interested in the answers to each, for a couple of reasons.
Quote from: CalithenaThat's two questions. I'm interested in the answers to each, for a couple of reasons.
Yes (albeit with several significant changes), no.
Oh for pity's sake!!
Its D20 of course. (again)
You think they are going to waste the time and money they spent on those plastic pre-paint miniatures and have it NOT be D20????
For that matter technically all D20 games are also supposed to be OGL - or at least somewhat compatible with them.
- Ed C.
Quote from: KoltarFor that matter technically all D20 games are also supposed to be OGL - or at least somewhat compatible with them.
Those are two entirely different things.
D20 system games will obviously use some or many standard D20 conventions.
But Wizards is under no obligation to release its own books under the OGL, and very rarely does (preferring to print their books without license, and release a subset of the material online under the license... and then, they have never done either for any of their Star Wars titles and I don't think they are about to start.)
Quote from: Caesar SlaadThose are two entirely different things.
D20 system games will obviously use some or many standard D20 conventions.
But Wizards is under no obligation to release its own books under the OGL, and very rarely does (preferring to print their books without license, and release a subset of the material online under the license... and then, they have never done either for any of their Star Wars titles and I don't think they are about to start.)
Nor do I think they're legally even capable of doing so in the case of Star Wars, there being other contractual and legal obligatiosn involved in licensing someone else's property.
What I'm wondering about is engineering a "D&D Saga" game using the mechanical ideas in Star Wars, using the OGL.
I'm not doing this myself, mind you. But it seems a no-brainer if you can swing it: beat WotC to D&D4. It would do at least as well as something like Castles & Crusades, which seems to keep the Troll Lords in beer money.
Quote from: J ArcaneNor do I think they're legally even capable of doing so in the case of Star Wars, there being other contractual and legal obligatiosn involved in licensing someone else's property.
While I can see how you might consider that something that might fall out a license, I can think of specific cases where material from Star Wars was licensed out. AEG was given explicit permission to use the VP/WP mechanic from Star Wars, and it later appeared in Unearthed Arcana sans any Star Wars specific material.
So it would appear the licensing arrangement only limits sub-licensing of material that is IP directly associated with Star Wars.
Quote from: CalithenaWhat I'm wondering about is engineering a "D&D Saga" game using the mechanical ideas in Star Wars, using the OGL.
I gathered as much. I don't have a copy of the book yet, but I think you're out of luck.
OY VEY!!!
Fellas,
Theoretically OGL should work with "D20" - because thats what those open license things are supposed to be based on.
Thay are at least supposed to be somewhat compatible.
- Ed C.
As far as I'm aware the d20 logo does not appear anywhere within the cover or text. It appears to be OGL, although a variant specifically geared toward d20 compatibility.
Quote from: DrewAs far as I'm aware the d20 logo does not appear anywhere within the cover or text.
Unless Grubman is pulling my leg, you are incorrect. Observe the bottom right corner:
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s182/grubman/SWbackcover.jpg)
QuoteIt appears to be OGL, although a variant specifically geared toward d20 compatibility.
Is there a copy of the OGL in the book? If not, it's not OGL. In fact, I'd wager if you looked at the front matter, amidst the trademark statements and suchnot, you'll find a statement to the effect that no portion of the book is open content, just like 99% of wotc RPG products.
OGL and D20 are two different things; there is no required correlation unless you happen to be a third party publisher who wants to take advantage of the license. Wizards, owner of the IP, is not required to use the OGL to use their own IP.
Well, the big question is what part (if any) of the rules did they make Open Game Content.
Only what has been declared OGC in the current SRD's can be used under the OGL. There is enough new stuff in Saga edition that, unless WotC declares it OGC, cannot be legally used.
Quote from: Caesar SlaadUnless Grubman is pulling my leg, you are incorrect. Observe the bottom right corner:
I stand corrected.
I can confirm that Grubman is completely on the up-and-up, since I am looking at my own copy of the book as I am typing this.
Quote from: KoltarFellas,
Theoretically OGL should work with "D20" - because thats what those open license things are supposed to be based on.
Thay are at least supposed to be somewhat compatible.
No.
The OGL is a license under which game material may be released for open use. D20 is the most famous, but not the only, system to have released material under the OGL (frex, Fudge is under the OGL and it has zero to do with D20).
Wizards is under no legal obligation to release any of their own D20 material under the OGL -- what, are they going to sue themselves for copyright infringement? If they want to release
other people's OGL content in a product, then they are obliged to include the OGL; hence the inclusion of the OGL in Unearthed Arcana. But otherwise, all of Wizards' books are explicitly marked as closed content. The open stuff is found online, and you can only use material from the online SRD or from a book which includes the OGL (Unearthed Arcana and Monster Manual III, IIRC, are the only Wizards' books which include the OGL).
It's true that all D20 stuff should be mostly compatible, but it's never been the case that third-party D20 stuff is largely compatible with Star Wars RPG material since a lot of the mechanical bits are unique to that game and almost none of it has been released as open content (the VP/WP system in Unearthed Arcana is a notable exception).
That said, you could nick the obvious bits for a "D&D Saga Edition" OGL lift, as long as you rewrote the specific wording and didn't directly cite your source. After all, you can't copyright game mechanics -- only specific iterations of them.
KoOS
Quote from: CalithenaBut it seems a no-brainer if you can swing it: beat WotC to D&D4. It would do at least as well as something like Castles & Crusades, which seems to keep the Troll Lords in beer money.
Someone could certainly try that in theory, but having the resources to pull it off in any kind of way that would actually rival official D&D4 seems very unlikely. Who would try that? Man, it would be audacious. A semi-pro/small co take is, of course, inevitable, probably after the event.
- Q
Quote from: King of Old SchoolThe open stuff is found online, and you can only use material from the online SRD or from a book which includes the OGL (Unearthed Arcana and Monster Manual III, IIRC, are the only Wizards' books which include the OGL).
Monster Manual II, not III.
And D20 Modern Weapons Locker.
Just some additional information:
I seem to recall Sean Reynolds mentioning something back when he was first explaining OGL that the rule set could not be either patented or copyrighted, and that the OGL was created basically so that what *was* copyrightable (flavor text, characters, setting, etc.) could be retained, with the added benefit of third-party book sales driving WotC book sales.
Additionally, many of the mechanics in SAGA seem to be similar to pre-existing rules... True20 has been mentioned, for example. I doubt there would be any problem whatsoever adapting SAGA's rules for other settings.
That said, "beating WotC to the punch with D&D 4e" wouldn't fly well, because too much of what is D&D -- all the non-rule stuff and even the name D&D itself -- is copyrighted by WotC.
If you wanted to post conversion rules online, however, I doubt you'd need to worry.
Yeah, I think you could easily take a lot of what makes Saga Edition a unique iteration of the d20 ruleset, minus the Star Wars IP of course, and write it in your own words so as to avoid any objectionable conduct. The skill system, frex, is very similar to the Blue Rose iteration of True20; you could likewise do a rewrite and feature it in your own OGL games.
But if your reason for doing so is to "get the jump" on D&D 4e, I don't think there's much point. True20 already does this in a lot of ways, and I don't think anyone perceives it as a threat to 4e in any way. Likewise any Saga-derived fantasy OGL game published between now and 4e's release, unless you manage to marry your OGL mechanics to some eye-catching visuals and a high-profile fantasy license like LotR.
KoOS