Are there any mechanisms within modern games - be they aspects, bennies, special points, traits etc - that provide an experience that couldn't be replicated in older games. Is there anything they do that is unique in any way?

I think almost every element that is in modern games was in older games, just arranged differently. That does make for a different experience mind you, in the same way that WW games and TSR games are a different experience (besides the settings).

There's been very little truly significant innovation in regular RPGs after the old-school period.

RPGPundit

only becuase any innovation will be regarded as 'story' game and not 'roleplaying' game by you.

Quote from: RPGPundit;662827There's been very little truly significant innovation in regular RPGs after the old-school period.

I thought the battle wheel was pretty clever, mind you that's just a subset of initiative so I guess it depends on what you want to call a 'mechanism' here.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;662864only becuase any innovation will be regarded as 'story' game and not 'roleplaying' game by you.

A better question might be have shared narrative games changed much over wargames, and the answer is of course no, not much.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;662600Are there any mechanisms within modern games - be they aspects, bennies, special points, traits etc - that provide an experience that couldn't be replicated in older games. Is there anything they do that is unique in any way?

Good question, I'm not sure. After all "bennies" at least go back to MSH (FaseRip) in the form of Karma, and VP in James Bond. Traits? I guess it depends on how you mean that, I know High Valor's traits aren't "new," per se.

Even the most brilliant "modern" ideas often have their foot firmly in the past.

Hard to say, especially as definitions can get kind of hazy.

What was the first purely resource based roleplaying game? I remember the Marvel Universe game seemed pretty innovative in that respect. I'm thinking Polaris did that first but I have no experience with that game. There is also Greg Stolze freebie Token Effort (that came bundled with Futurama style setting called "In Spaaaace") which was purely resource based.

I'd also argue that Fate's Consequence mechanic is new. Not sure how much I like it, but the idea of being able to take a free form temporary disadvantage in lieu of direct damage is not something I recall seeing done before other than as GM fiat.

I think it depends on what you mean by modern games. Are you talking about all rpgs released in the last five to ten years and trying to find a pattern? Or are you talking about a particular subset that aspire to modern design? I am not sure about the later, since that is probably just a sub genre more than a descriptor of modern rpgs. But i think there is a trend toward streamlined rules, that crosses over many different types of rpgs. But I would still be cautious about painting with too wide a brush. It is very hard to see the forest from the trees when you live in the period you are analyzing.

Like others have said, many of the things you see alot of with modern games (bennies and so forth) go back to the early days of the hobby.they tend to be used in a more deliberate way but they have been around.

People put money under Free Parking when playing Monopoly...

Basically you're asking if newer games do things older ones CAN'T, to which the answer is obviously no. Watch some kids play a boardgame. I doubt you'd be able to identify half the rules they're using as they simply make stuff up as desired. The idea that we're constrained by rules is firmly a problem unimaginative adults have, it's not an issue with the games themselves. Any sort of perceived innovation is nothing more than codifying ad hoc rules into something specific.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;662600Are there any mechanisms within modern games - be they aspects, bennies, special points, traits etc - that provide an experience that couldn't be replicated in older games. Is there anything they do that is unique in any way?

I would say that newer games are designed to be exclusionary of the hobby as a whole. Tak FFG's Star Wars as an example, you must buy their funky dice to play the game and the dice cannot be used in any other game - the rules are set up to be that unique. In the past most games could be used as gateways to the RPG hobby as a whole, not so much now. It is like the manufacturers are interested in new customers for their product line, but not neccessarily new hobbyists to RPGs.

Quote from: jeff37923;662899I would say that newer games are designed to be exclusionary of the hobby as a whole. Tak FFG's Star Wars as an example, you must buy their funky dice to play the game and the dice cannot be used in any other game - the rules are set up to be that unique. In the past most games could be used as gateways to the RPG hobby as a whole, not so much now. It is like the manufacturers are interested in new customers for their product line, but not neccessarily new hobbyists to RPGs.

Well, not really. They aren't odd - shaped pears, you can just grab a set of d6 and say what each is - just like with Fudge/Fate dice.

Quote from: Rincewind1;662907Well, not really. They aren't odd - shaped pears, you can just grab a set of d6 and say what each is - just like with Fudge/Fate dice.

Nope. You need to take a look at the dice for FFG Star Wars and the rules that they support. They are unique. You cannot substitute other dice for them. They do not have numbers on them, they have specific symbols of various combinations and amounts.

The only thing that comes even remotely close is Alternity's dice use in their task resolution mechanic.

Quote from: jeff37923;662909Nope. You need to take a look at the dice for FFG Star Wars and the rules that they support. They are unique. You cannot substitute other dice for them. They do not have numbers on them, they have specific symbols of various combinations and amounts.

The only thing that comes even remotely close is Alternity's dice use in their task resolution mechanic.

If they are like W3e dice, you can substitute them. It won't be easy, but you can. Unless each class has their own set of dice, it's really a set of about 10 categories of dice, that you'd need simply to scribe each number to. Something that'd require getting used to, but I suspect after 1 - 2 sessions it'd work.

I'm not a big fan of FFG's new RPGs, but dice themselves aren't that problematic. Especially given that they are in boxed sets (and well, I doubt you can play w/o boxed set anyway, given the boardgamish amount of chits/cards).

If I recall, the Hercules and Xena RPG came with funky dice that were difficult to substitute.

Quote from: jeff37923;662899I would say that newer games are designed to be exclusionary of the hobby as a whole. Tak FFG's Star Wars as an example, you must buy their funky dice to play the game and the dice cannot be used in any other game - the rules are set up to be that unique. In the past most games could be used as gateways to the RPG hobby as a whole, not so much now. It is like the manufacturers are interested in new customers for their product line, but not neccessarily new hobbyists to RPGs.

I would assume the dice come with the game, as per Wfrp3.

You might have a point in terms of a price increase that, if these sort of peripherals, weren't used wouldn't exist - and wfrp3e proves that given the buy in. But that had a ton of crap not just dice.

However that is not really the issue. The question is, in the case of EoftE, do the dice offer anything that wasn't already possible in older/other games? The idea behind these dice is they provide more than just binary results. That's a worthwhile goal isn't it?