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Is it possible for Tolkienesque fantasy to ever be "played out"?

Started by Shipyard Locked, December 31, 2013, 08:10:38 AM

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Herr Arnulfe

#15
December 31, 2013, 12:49:45 PM
I wouldn't say Tolkienesque/D&Dish fantasy is played out, but it could certainly benefit from an injection of new ideas. And I don't mean cosmetic innovations like grey-skinned Orcs and gun-toting Dwarfs, but rather the types of encounters, adventure themes, moral quandaries and underlying goals of the escapism. In a nutshell, less power/growth fantasy for adolescent boys and more re-imaginations of the genre aimed at girls and adults.
 

Old One Eye

#16
December 31, 2013, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Old Geezer;719645Ding!  Winner!

Early D&D had a very NON Tolkien feel.  Yeah, the Tolkien critters were there, but it was more like "Bilbo Baggins visits Lankhmar."

Nor seeing the difference.  The Hobbit is an adventuring party killing weird monsters and taking their stuff while dungeoneering and hexcrawling.  Thorin is name level and establishes his endgame stronghold.  There is even a DMPC.  What is the big difference?

Gronan of Simmerya

#17
December 31, 2013, 01:18:13 PM
Quote from: Old One Eye;719659Nor seeing the difference.  The Hobbit is an adventuring party killing weird monsters and taking their stuff while dungeoneering and hexcrawling.  Thorin is name level and establishes his endgame stronghold.  There is even a DMPC.  What is the big difference?

Have you ever READ any of Lieber's stories?
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Old One Eye

#18
December 31, 2013, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: Old Geezer;719662Have you ever READ any of Lieber's stories?

Just one.  Fafrd ane the Mouser hired mercenaries, sailed to a far off island, messed around with some fading gods, and other stuff I do not remember.  

What does that have to do with whether Tolkein's story about an adventuring party killing monsters and taking their stuff is similar in vein to DnD?

Exploderwizard

#19
December 31, 2013, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: Old One Eye;719659Nor seeing the difference.  The Hobbit is an adventuring party killing weird monsters and taking their stuff while dungeoneering and hexcrawling.  Thorin is name level and establishes his endgame stronghold.  There is even a DMPC.  What is the big difference?

Quote from: Old One Eye;719664What does that have to do with whether Tolkein's story about an adventuring party killing monsters and taking their stuff is similar in vein to DnD?

I don't think anyone is arguing the ABSENCE of Tolkien influences on D&D. There is just way more in the mix than that is all.

Bilbo and company could stumble upon a crashed starship in the Misty Mountains, explore it, and come out with treasure and a few wild and wacky tech gadgets and it would still be a very D&D like adventure.

Likewise they could encounter a hungry vampire while attempting to to have a night of wild dwarven/hobbit sex at a whorehouse in Bree. Still very D&D.

Thorin and Co. might find a rust monster deep in the halls of the Lonely mountain, capture it, and unleash it against the orcs at the battle of five armies. Yup. Feels like D&D to me.:)
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thedungeondelver

#20
December 31, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
(A)D&D style fantasy will never go out of fashion for me.  I love it.
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Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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Benoist

#21
December 31, 2013, 02:54:27 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;719589Does/will a significant portion of the audience ever get tired of this stuff or is it truly evergreen?

Are we due for a backlash against basic fantasy tropes?

I don't think so. There's room for everything, and that includes classic fantasy tropes.

elfandghost

#22
December 31, 2013, 03:26:00 PM
QuoteIs it possible for Tolkienesque fantasy to ever be "played out"?


Seeing as I've just seen the 2nd Hobbit film with the Missus and it made me have the same excitement when I first read the book aged 9, no. And with a new generation experience the Tolkien thing again, albeit in film form; I think the future won't be so different; something that WoTC got massively wrong. The film is number one 1 here in the UK and Stateside, if WoTC had been on the ball a few D&D adverts beforehand would have been an idea - still final film next year.
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

Endless Flight

#23
December 31, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
I was just reading about how the movie is doing on BoxOfficeMojo. It says that 64% of the audience was over the age of 25, according to their survey. Does that mean the kids don't like fantasy quite like we do?

elfandghost

#24
December 31, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
Quote from: Endless Flight;719698I was just reading about how the movie is doing on BoxOfficeMojo. It says that 64% of the audience was over the age of 25, according to their survey. Does that mean the kids don't like fantasy quite like we do?

Well, even if true that is 36% under 25. Someone is buying Hobbit Lego! :)
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

danbuter

#25
December 31, 2013, 03:55:31 PM
36% of millions of people is pretty damn good. Nothing in gaming even approaches that.
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Endless Flight

#26
December 31, 2013, 04:07:57 PM Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 04:12:09 PM by Endless Flight
Yes, but I wonder how that compares to say, Star Wars, or the Batman or Avenger movies.

Gronan of Simmerya

#27
December 31, 2013, 04:11:03 PM
Quote from: Old One Eye;719664Just one.  Fafrd ane the Mouser hired mercenaries, sailed to a far off island, messed around with some fading gods, and other stuff I do not remember.  

What does that have to do with whether Tolkein's story about an adventuring party killing monsters and taking their stuff is similar in vein to DnD?

Thorin was "Legitimate Heir and King Under the Mountain"

Gandalf was "One of the Wise."

Your typical batch of OD&D PCs was a bunch of amoral mercenaries.  MUCH more like Conan and Fafhrd than Thorin or Aragorn.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

jeff37923

#28
December 31, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
I don't think that D&D style fantasy will ever get played out, but I can understand if a system feels played out. I like B/X D&D and Labyrinth Lord as well as 3.x D&D and Pathfinder, but have gotten a bit burned out on the drudgery aspect of 3.x/Pathfinder. I still love the ideas I've gotten and do not intend on getting rid of any of my books (although I may pack them away), but the implementations of those ideas is more cumbersome than I would like to use. So I am back to B/X D&D and Labyrinth Lord, but with stuff cribbed from 3.x/Pathfinder to expand it. And still, the beat goes on.
"Meh."

Gizmoduck5000

#29
December 31, 2013, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;719589Seems like mass culture has been marinating in warrior-rogue-wizard-human-elf-dwarf fantasy for a while now and geek culture for way longer. When I went to PAX in 2012 I was stunned by the glutted repetitiveness of basic fantasy tropes in many of the video games and board games they were offering.

Does/will a significant portion of the audience ever get tired of this stuff or is it truly evergreen?

Are we due for a backlash against basic fantasy tropes?

I think that individual people and groups will grow tired of the tropes for a period of time, but the masses as a whole will never be tired of it.
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