Contrarian PCs always tend to not work out. Ask him to change his character and boot him if he doesn't or half-asses it.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1093928Knowing that the whole campaign is going to be about a certain plot is way too meta for me.

In my experience aren't a high percentage of players who can make a stay-at-home, claustrophobic green grocers in a party of tomb robbers work. Ditto for making "I'm only in it for my self and the who cares who it hurts lols" characters in a group of would-be heroes.

re: Lost in Space. Personally I've never quite understood why in 3 seasons Don never did space Dr. Smith when the Robinsons' backs were turned. At least I'd think Major West would have understood the concept of both friendly fire and fragging.

re: the OP. I've seen contrarian PCs work. But not with a contrarian player. It's good if you can figure out which you have here. And of course it's fine to make the player redo his PC. Better to do it now than 6 sessions into the game.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Well, I'm getting ready for a 5e campaign, and I have the characters, but one of them doesn't fit the campaign nor the party.
...

Yeah, you can see the problem, I guess. Is it a dick move to ask him to modify the character so it fits better?

No.

It is the RIGHT move.

Your the GM. Your table your rules.

If they don't like it they can vote with their feet.

Period.

Quote from: Bren;1093967In my experience aren't a high percentage of players who can make a stay-at-home, claustrophobic green grocers in a party of tomb robbers work. Ditto for making "I'm only in it for my self and the who cares who it hurts lols" characters in a group of would-be heroes.

There are certain character types that can sound cool, but just don't work as PCs. Experienced players should know this, but new players might not. A classic example is the reluctant hero, often manifesting as an angsty loner. PCs need to be proactive and self-motivated, and not need a supporting cast to continually prod them into action. The doesn't play well with others archetype is another example; the other players are under no obligation to cater to someone acting like an asshole. Though the green grocer example is even worse, because that's not even a heroic or action-oriented archetype.

A DM has the right to run any game they want, to include limits on characters

The players have the right to vote with their feet, as mentioned.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1093928Knowing that the whole campaign is going to be about a certain plot is way too meta for me.

Why? You tell your players what the general thrust of the campaign is so they can make characters appropriate to it.

For instance I ran a game around an artifact called the slaying stone once, with the pitch basically being to the players that they were going to play a group that was trying to destroy it LOTR style. I also provided various themes and plot hooks for them to build their characters around.

That saves you from having to force a party that has no business being together, together.

Believe it or not, there's a lot of us who just start campaigns with a few different situations and then see what happens.

Probably a feature of dungeon campaigns - it's the hole of chaos that never runs out of stairs, and then stuff eventually just spills out of it into the rest of the world organically.  Treasure maps entice players to move around, and they either get involved somewhere else or just stretch their legs a bit before going back to the hole of chaos for more directionless fun.

Quote from: EOTB;1094015Believe it or not, there's a lot of us who just start campaigns with a few different situations and then see what happens.

Probably a feature of dungeon campaigns - it's the hole of chaos that never runs out of stairs, and then stuff eventually just spills out of it into the rest of the world organically.  Treasure maps entice players to move around, and they either get involved somewhere else or just stretch their legs a bit before going back to the hole of chaos for more directionless fun.

Yeah that makes sense for an open ended dungeon crawl, but I'm thinking of pre-made modules and the like that have a definite plot (though of course there's wiggle room in there for whatever the players do, you still have general thrust). And that's a good chunk of games nowadays, no?

Quote from: Jaeger;1093969No.

It is the RIGHT move.

Your the GM. Your table your rules.

If they don't like it they can vote with their feet.

Period.

Ditto.  I kept reading the thread, waiting for someone to give you the right answer.

You can stand your ground politely.  Don't show them the door first, show it to them after sound reasoning fails.  You never know; they could become a great player at your table.  Just make sure they don't think sabotage is fun.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Well, I'm getting ready for a 5e campaign, and I have the characters, but one of them doesn't fit the campaign nor the party.

So far the party consists of:

- A relatively standard dragonborn paladin, concerned on protecting the crown and helping inocent people
- A young elf mage too pure for this world
- A honorbound warrior seeking a way to restore her families honor and help people
- and... an artificier that doesn't feel anything that puts a façade of a happy person and would have no problem in hurting innocents (without killing them) in exchange for eternal life. Also he would push a button that explodes the world just for curiosity.

The objetive of the campaign is simple: kill four demons that are ravaging the world and save it, "you are the light that will clear the darkness", as they are refered in-game, as a profecy marked them as the ones that will save the world from this demons (there is a bit more to it, but it's irrelevant to this topic). They all knew this before making the characters, by the way.

Yeah, you can see the problem, I guess. Is it a dick move to ask him to modify the character so it fits better?

Did you vet your players first before letting them into your game?

Quote from: Pat;1093988There are certain character types that can sound cool, but just don't work as PCs. Experienced players should know this, but new players might not. A classic example is the reluctant hero, often manifesting as an angsty loner. PCs need to be proactive and self-motivated, and not need a supporting cast to continually prod them into action. The doesn't play well with others archetype is another example; the other players are under no obligation to cater to someone acting like an asshole.

Other players is the key. I can imagine a 1-shot or campaign for a single player whose PC is the reluctant hero, the angsty loner, heck even the green grocer could or would work. But as a GM those choices aren't high on my list of PCs I want as the focus of a solo campaign. I'd want the player to explain how and why that would be fun for both of us.

Quote from: EOTB;1094015Believe it or not, there's a lot of us who just start campaigns with a few different situations and then see what happens.

There's less meta considerations up front, but in any situation there still are some considerations. Like don't create a stay-at-home greengrocer in a dungeon campaign and expect that's going to work out well. But, yeah, some players want a very minimal discussion before the start of play.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Well, I'm getting ready for a 5e campaign, and I have the characters, but one of them doesn't fit the campaign nor the party.

So far the party consists of:

- A relatively standard dragonborn paladin, concerned on protecting the crown and helping inocent people
- A young elf mage too pure for this world
- A honorbound warrior seeking a way to restore her families honor and help people
- and... an artificier that doesn't feel anything that puts a façade of a happy person and would have no problem in hurting innocents (without killing them) in exchange for eternal life. Also he would push a button that explodes the world just for curiosity.

The objetive of the campaign is simple: kill four demons that are ravaging the world and save it, "you are the light that will clear the darkness", as they are refered in-game, as a profecy marked them as the ones that will save the world from this demons (there is a bit more to it, but it's irrelevant to this topic). They all knew this before making the characters, by the way.

Yeah, you can see the problem, I guess. Is it a dick move to ask him to modify the character so it fits better?

it's fair to discuss this with the player. You're much more aware of any pitfalls associated with this type of PC. I wouldn't demand the player change, since I'd feel it's my job to facilitate the players' idea of fun. A concept, after all, is a concept. Actual play could see the character change in unexpected ways. Plus, a little friction can make things interesting, story-wise. Beyond that, I wouldn't assume a problem exists before it actually does. My two cents only.

Whenever you set out a "we're going to be good guys" campaign there's always going to be a player who goes: "Okay yeah but I can be the morally grey [can do whatever I want] one among the good guys." Always. Always.

Get good at saying "no" now, and often. If you don't make it a big deal to say: "Nope. Doesn't fit. Try again," then they won't think it's a big deal either.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1093962Contrarian PCs always tend to not work out. Ask him to change his character and boot him if he doesn't or half-asses it.

A contrarian character can work. But it needs the right type of player and group to pull off most often. Situation may throw unlikely characters together as well. And sometimes you can get opposing character types that oddly mesh well together for whatever reason.

... I think we scared off the new member. We came on too strong, like vermouth.