I ask because I can't remember what it is like to feel irrational fear even if I recognise artistic efforts in that direction in films like The Exorcist, The Shining and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. More gruesome films have far less effect than these clever films. Lovecraft and CA Smith have a fantastical but not a horrific effect on me. In all honesty films like Requiem for a Dream and Irreversible, and the stories of Kafka and Beckett disturb me more than any 'Horror' film ever made.

Yet almost every woman I know is susceptible to a fear of darkness, and sudden random attack in the night, and a distaste for horror films with few exceptions. I am not saying this provocatively, in fact I have great sympathy and concern for women's fear of being attacked by insane nutbags.

This is strange because horror is of great interest to us I think as male DMs, in general. Think of Call of Cthulhu and Carcosa and the use of undead and demons and evil cults. I don't remember the emotion of horror since my teens but I can acknowledge it is something others experience. I admire CoC as a system but feel it fails to evoke even the slightest horror.

So my question for the thread is,

Is Horror a real emotion we feel as children and many women continue to experience in Horror films, but somehow gets transformed into an aesthetic in fantasy gaming, a particular kind of superficial fantasy glamour OR has anyone experienced a real sense of horror at the game table? If so what game were you playing, how did it come about and do any kinds of literary horror stories still affect you?

No.

Believe me. I have walked my dogs by the forest surrounding us these last few days. They are aware as I am that something's not right this week. I have heard a low growl that reminded me of Zuul in the shadows of the trees, and I have seen something. Something I cannot identify which looked like a very large, dark, slender wolf, but way too big to be a wolf per se, and too thin to be a black bear. People keep telling me I saw a Grizzly maybe, but I know that's not it.

There is something out there. It's been there for the past week, and I don't know what it is. I know it's made my dogs nervous though. And I know it's filled me with dread.

Trust me. Horror is not a feminine emotion.

Is that fear horror though of the kind you remember as a powerless child with a tremendous imagination?

If I encounter anything, man or dog (wolf), which wants to attack me nowadays I just notice my pulse racing, and I just get a little excited.

==

If it is horror, do you recognise it as an emotion related to reading Lovecraft or CA Smith. Something you can evoke at the gametable?

Yes, it is, Kent. In the sense of dread, of knowing somehow you better turn back, because whatever is in the woods is bad news. It's very similar to feeling powerless, actually, like the day I walked my dog in Bella Bella and ended up in a fraction of second surrounded by an actual, real pack of seven or eight wolves and knowing at that instant that if they felt like messing with us we were fucked.

I can't say that I've experienced horror at the game table (or at the movie theater, for that matter -- at least an an adult).

As an adult, what I find horrifying is the evil or madness lurking in the minds of men, and that it usually isn't diabolical, but banal and senseless: the mother who drowns her children in the bathtub, the father who abuses his daughter, et cetera.  I can also find horror in terrible events where no one is to blame and we are often powerless or too late to change things: a wasting illness, a tragic accident, the results of untreated chronic depression/despair, et cetera.  None of these are things I want to dwell on, and certainly not things I want to play a game about.

Zombies and vampires and ghosts and dread Cthulhu have no real horror, for me; I simply don't believe in them, so the ideas have no potency.  While fun for stories and games, malevolent, storybook, uppercase EVIL simply can't hold a candle to real-life horror and banal, lowercase evil.

kent, have you ever been to war?

I think this is the crux, for me:

I feel "horror" when confronted with something terrible where I am powerless or too late.

If I'm in a darkened bedroom and I hear a bump in the night, I'm not terrified or horrified.  I'm anxious, but I'm also able to act decisively: I get up, I investigate, and I console myself with the idea that I am probably about as dangerous as anything making the bumps.

If I'm in a darkened bedroom and I hear one of my children screaming in pain or terror, I'm horrified.  My initial horror is the idea that something terrible has happened and I may be too late/powerless to prevent it.

That's the difference between anxiety or dread, and true horror, to me.

(Not sure that any of this is really applicable to the questions in the original post, though...)

Aaaaand Philotomy nails it.

Benoist, In that case, what Im wondering is have you been able to capture that sense of dread in your games or is horror at the gametable merely a fantasy aesthetic with trappings such a wavy daggers on altars and demon idols. Does 'horror' in fantasy remind you of real life dread or is it a well tailored well worn costume.

The answer is no.

And that books, film, and other media are poor conduits for horror.

But horror itself is universally human. I envy Kent, that he can ask this question.

Quote from: Peregrin;588020Aaaaand Philotomy nails it.

Pretty much.  He hit on what I was going to say.  If you've got kids, and you think something really bad happened?  Like really bad?  Sheer terror.

Quote from: _kent_;588021Does 'horror' in fantasy remind you of real life dread or is it a well tailored well worn costume.

It depends greatly on the other players. If you can tap the horrors players have already experienced and bring them back to life, it is potent. Of, however, like you they have not experienced true horror, it is harder.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;588023Sheer terror.

terror and horror are significantly different.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;588016None of these are things I want to dwell on, and certainly not things I want to play a game about.

Zombies and vampires and ghosts and dread Cthulhu have no real horror, for me; I simply don't believe in them, so the ideas have no potency.

This is very interesting and I agree. If we look at the drunken father attacking the boy in The Shining or Robert Mitchum intimidating the tiny girl in Night of the Hunter these are unsettling and frankly there is something more distasteful about bringing that to the gametable than sacrificing cultists.

And yet, if that is what it takes to have an emotional effect of dread or horror on your players ...

Let's face it many of the acknowledged powerful works of drama from ancient times through Shakespeare appear to have great insight into what moves us and violence against and within the family features frequently but I'll put my hand up and say gaming DMs dont really have a right to play around with this material for lack of skill and understanding.

Evoking real horror in your adult players, which so far surprisingly we are suggesting has little to do with monsters, would seem a vulgar imposition and yet this anxiety for the safety of our children is there in many great plays as legitimate entertainment.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;588016I can't say that I've experienced horror at the game table (or at the movie theater, for that matter -- at least an an adult).

As an adult, what I find horrifying is the evil or madness lurking in the minds of men, and that it usually isn't diabolical, but banal and senseless: the mother who drowns her children in the bathtub, the father who abuses his daughter, et cetera.  I can also find horror in terrible events where no one is to blame and we are often powerless or too late to change things: a wasting illness, a tragic accident, the results of untreated chronic depression/despair, et cetera.  None of these are things I want to dwell on, and certainly not things I want to play a game about.

Zombies and vampires and ghosts and dread Cthulhu have no real horror, for me; I simply don't believe in them, so the ideas have no potency.  While fun for stories and games, malevolent, storybook, uppercase EVIL simply can't hold a candle to real-life horror and banal, lowercase evil.

You said much more eloquently what I was trying to compose.