Quote from: _kent_;588021Benoist, In that case, what Im wondering is have you been able to capture that sense of dread in your games or is horror at the gametable merely a fantasy aesthetic with trappings such a wavy daggers on altars and demon idols. Does 'horror' in fantasy remind you of real life dread or is it a well tailored well worn costume.

It can. I have been there as a player in some games, and I witnessed comparable responses to some events in the games I ran. I think that some manner of aesthetics help in creating the appropriate mood, like some manner of conductor for the moment(s) to happen, but you can't have them feel fake or plastic. To get to those kinds of places in the game you have to have people playing the same game, which means the GM has to be able to get in the zone to make the environment feel real and alive, and the players have to be receptive to that and answer in kind. You got to wear the costume and wear it for a while, and soon enough you'll forget you're wearing it at all.

My day job is researching emotions, so from the academic side I've heard it said that horror is a mixture of fear and disgust. Given that disgust can take on so many forms - physical disgust at the sight of gore or abnormal bodies; moral disgust at a person with evil character, one who doesn't just disagree with us but rejects our core values - I'd say this fits most of the examples given.

It's also a curious fact that women tend to score higher on disgust sensitivity than men. So I'd cautiously endorse the spirit of the OP but only in a statistical sense, not an absolute sense. Men are certainly capable of feeling disgust and therefore, horror.

I'm not really speaking ex cathedra here because there's almost no empirical psychological literature on horror (but tons on fear, anxiety, disgust). It's also worth noting that horror, like disgust, is often a spectator emotion - we say we feel "terror" about something that can harm us but "horror" about something that has harmed others. And the previous point about the difference between anxiety in a threat, and horror in a certainty.

What I find interesting is how horror fans seek out the experience of being "scared, but safe" in literature and movies and haunted houses, but horror fans do not seek out the same experiences that an adrenaline junkie would seek out.

People react to different stimuli differently. The technical differences between fear, horror and terror are clearly not an issue since kent is talking about "irrational fear". Hell, entire countries can be transformed by paroxysms of fear into acting in an irrational manner, witness the USA over the last decade.

Horror and fear in RPGs is, in my experience, less an issue of what you show the group than one of what you don't show the group. Once the curtain is pulled back the little wizened guy pulling the levers is something that can be dealt with and rationalised. The threatening unknown is the heart of darkness. I once had an entire group of strapping young men gibbering in palpable terror at the sight of a crow nailed to a door with an iron nail.

I have no clue what a feminine emotion is meant to be. The premise of the thread that there is a substantial difference between men and women when it comes to fear doesn't even bear momentary scrutiny without some statistics behind it.

No. Both men and women experience horror. Some people are better at giving into the experience of a horror movie and others are better at veiwing horror movies in a more disconnected way (the difference between the person who is stuck on the edge of their seat and the person who laughs and cracks jokes). The more horror movies you watch, i think its easier to be in the latter category (and i wouldn't be surprised if menwatch more horror movies growing up). But outside of fake horror, if something horrifying happens in real life, being a man won't protect you from it.

I'm kinda feeling horror right now.

Quote from: The Traveller;588050People react to different stimuli differently. The technical differences between fear, horror and terror are clearly not an issue since kent is talking about "irrational fear". Hell, entire countries can be transformed by paroxysms of fear into acting in an irrational manner, witness the USA over the last decade.

I'd say irrational fear is not necessarily a synonym of horror. A great deal of horror can be justified. So I think the terms need to be uncoupled to determine exactly what we're talking about.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;588092I'd say irrational fear is not necessarily a synonym of horror. A great deal of horror can be justified. So I think the terms need to be uncoupled to determine exactly what we're talking about.

Just quoting the OP, peering at us from his world of fainting females. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess "troll thread".

For me at least, here's how it breaks down.

Fear, whether rational or irrational, is an initiation of the body's Fight or Flight system, emphasis on the Flight.  It's strongly tied to physiological responses.

Terror is Fear turned up to 11, where the level of Fear rises to where rational thought is severely impaired.  You may not know what's happening, but you have to run away, or have to find or get to your kids NOW!

Horror is more mental (ie not adrenaline driven).  It is a combination of fear/disgust/other stuff, more of a dawning realization, where you are having trouble putting together what is actually happening due to it being so terrible or beyond your experience.

Example 1. Responding to reports of activity at a deserted building might bring with it a level of Fear, due to all the possible factors the reality of which are unknown.  Exploring the building and coming upon Hannibal Lector's slaughterhouse or kitchen would fill one with Horror as you realized what was happening.  Hearing Hannibal Lector moving around upstairs might fill one with Terror, leading to getting the hell out of Dodge.

Example 2. Realizing your child isn't on the swing where you saw them 5 seconds ago = Fear.  Looking around the playground and still not seeing them = Terror.  After tearing through the whole park and not finding them and realizing that they are gone as the adrenaline wears off = Horror.

The male/female aspect?  I'd could buy the argument that women might feel more rational fear on a daily basis simply due to realities of life.  As for Horror?  As a generalized statement?  Probably no difference, but I'm not up on any research in that area.

As for as whether men and women experience horror differently, I don't have any reason to believe they do.  It is certainly possible that some women feel 'powerless' in some situations that men do not, which seems to be a precondition for a 'horror' response.  

As far as gaming, true horror is really hard to create.  There are too many barriers to 'true experience' that stand in the way.  Even seeing things from your character's perspective isn't enough to create 'true horror', for the most party.

There can be horrifying things, and you can have an emotional response to in-character events, but true horror in a game just doesn't work.  But sometimes you can get close, and that can be worthwhile.

Keep in mind that horror isn't really a sustainable emotion.  No matter how terrible something might be, we get inured to the horror aspect relatively quickly.  Small doses can sustain the atmosphere relatively well, but too much and human nature leads inevitably to someone 'breaking the mood'.  Since we're talking about people sitting around a table, it isn't hard to spoil the atmosphere by running off to use the restroom or get a new round of drinks, or make an humorous out-of-character remark.  

A horror-game is mostly an exercise in pretend (beyond a normal game).  Pretending that you're horrified and responding appropriately, even if that's not your 'real' emotion.  While it can be rewarding, it hardly qualifies as 'horrifying'.

Now, if when you invite people over, you lock them in your basement in some kind of Saw style knock-off, locking them in their chairs and promising them that whatever happens to their character happens to them in real life - that'll get the horror juices flowing.

Quote from: One Horse Town;588066I'm kinda feeling horror right now.

Yep.

Quote from: The Traveller;588093Just quoting the OP, peering at us from his world of fainting females. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess "troll thread".

Fair enough.

Emotions don't have genders, and aren't exclusive to genders.  The concept that people are more prone to feel one emotion moreso than other people based on gender is essentialist and sexist to me.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;588145Emotions don't have genders, and aren't exclusive to genders.  The concept that people are more prone to feel one emotion moreso than other people based on gender is essentialist and sexist to me.

I think it's fair to say there are cultural forces that make displaying or admitting to certain emotions socially more acceptable for one gender or the other. It's more socially acceptable for women to admit to fear or sadness, for example, while its more acceptable for men to admit to lust or anger. Men are encouraged to be "tough" and conceal fear or sadness or pain, whereas women are encouraged to conceal lustful or violent emotions, but are free to express vulnerable ones.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is how our culture perceives appropriateness of emotional expression, and while that may be changing slowly, there is alot of inertia.

So the OP may well be noticing the disporportionate expression of these emotions and assuming that expression is the same as experience.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;588025terror and horror are significantly different.

Not according to a thesaurus.  In the sentence I made, feel free to place terror with horror if you like.  Both work.