Quote from: Robyo;1107196I love this.

The wokeness doesn't bother me. Authors/Publishers have a right to release whatever views they wish. But the SJW total censorship of any thought beyond their own tiny worldview certainly does suck. The Big Purple is guilty of this.

I can see WotC and Paizo starting a new Satanic Panic with the Religious Right over all the trans/homo innuendo in their new products. Oklahoma parents screaming about RPG's trying to turn their kids gay.

Do you really think that this is even potentially a thing? The religious right and "Oklahoma parents" have disappeared, and it's only the left that still paints them as a boogey man. Fact is they put their heads down years ago and insomuch as they still exist, only seek to appease.

Quote from: The_Shadow;1107830Do you really think that this is even potentially a thing? The religious right and "Oklahoma parents" have disappeared, and it's only the left that still paints them as a boogey man. Fact is they put their heads down years ago and insomuch as they still exist, only seek to appease.

Not so much, no.

Quote from: Brad;1107640I'm sure they're working on that right now...

"A book is a loaded gun in the house next door...Who knows who might be the target of the well-read man?"
- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Quote from: Motorskills;1107964Not so much, no.

I make the point that the hysterical right barely exists anymore. You post a link proving the point that these days it's the left that's hysterical...
Okay then.

Quote from: The_Shadow;1107830Do you really think that this is even potentially a thing? The religious right and "Oklahoma parents" have disappeared, and it's only the left that still paints them as a boogey man. Fact is they put their heads down years ago and insomuch as they still exist, only seek to appease.

Having lived 1994-2016 in the bible belt, this is so not consistent with my experience.

And Motorskills' response to you was intended to convey - conveyed to me - the opposite of the point you are claiming it did. Most "Religious Freedom" bills absolutely are the religious right and "Oklahoma parents" attempting to coopt government, not to appease the left.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1108009And Motorskills' response to you was intended to convey - conveyed to me - the opposite of the point you are claiming it did. Most "Religious Freedom" bills absolutely are the religious right and "Oklahoma parents" attempting to coopt government, not to appease the left.

I don't really understand how the Indiana bill is co-opting the government when it literally removes government power over the individual.

Quote from: The_Shadow;1107985I make the point that the hysterical right barely exists anymore. You post a link proving the point that these days it's the left that's hysterical...
Okay then.

Err...okay? I'll try to respond constructively I guess. You indicated that the religious right wasn't a force any more, at least in our hobby. That's patently false, plenty of businesses in Indiana threatened to leave, Gen Con was just more high-profile to us.

And similar corporate-style 'boycotts' have been threatened - and executed - in other parts of the country, nominally not affecting the gaming hobby directly at all.

The religious right may have lost a huge amount of ground over the past couple of decades - gay marriage hasn't brought the world to an end, shockingly enough, it's considered routine by the general public - but it doesn't mean that they are not still trying.

And that public shift is mirrored by Big Business being far more on the side of light these days. Their customers and their employees aren't standing for it any more.

Quote from: Dracones;1108010I don't really understand how the Indiana bill is co-opting the government when it literally removes government power over the individual.

They want the government to allow people to not have to Bend the Knee. These mad brutes must be destroyed!

Quote from: Motorskills;1108033Err...okay? I'll try to respond constructively I guess. You indicated that the religious right wasn't a force any more, at least in our hobby. That's patently false, plenty of businesses in Indiana threatened to leave, Gen Con was just more high-profile to us.

And similar corporate-style 'boycotts' have been threatened - and executed - in other parts of the country, nominally not affecting the gaming hobby directly at all.

The religious right may have lost a huge amount of ground over the past couple of decades - gay marriage hasn't brought the world to an end, shockingly enough, it's considered routine by the general public - but it doesn't mean that they are not still trying.

And that public shift is mirrored by Big Business being far more on the side of light these days. Their customers and their employees aren't standing for it any more.

You're basically mirroring the problem with the entire woke movement. Some people somewhere lose their shit over basically nothing, then the fact that people are losing their shit over something becomes the proof that there's a problem. Now that we've established "a problem" that then causes more reaction of people losing their shit over that "established" problem and signalling that they're a good person by losing their shit over it. Though really no one involved knows what the problem actually is, they just know there's "a problem" and that they need to be outraged over it.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1108009Having lived 1994-2016 in the bible belt, this is so not consistent with my experience.

And Motorskills' response to you was intended to convey - conveyed to me - the opposite of the point you are claiming it did. Most "Religious Freedom" bills absolutely are the religious right and "Oklahoma parents" attempting to coopt government, not to appease the left.

Quote from: Dracones;1108010I don't really understand how the Indiana bill is co-opting the government when it literally removes government power over the individual.

Regardless of whether you support it or not, would you agree that it is supported by the Religious Right, and opposed by the Left? It certainly seems to me that the Religious Right is having increased success of late, with success in passing not just religious freedom bills but also with passing abortion restrictions like the Alabama law. That shows they have more legislative representation than they've had in a long time.

NOTE: Deleted discussion of the religious freedom laws, as it is off-topic.

Deleted because it's offtopic.

Quote from: jhkim;1108042According to most constitutional interpretations, atheists should have all the same rights that religious people do. So, for example, if a religious person can refuse to serve a gay couple, then an atheist should also be able to refuse to serve a gay couple.

It'd appear that atheists would be covered under the bill. Atheism is a set of religious beliefs and an atheist would have legal protection from denying burdensome service that violates those beliefs. If you were billboard designer and sued for not creating a custom Intelligent Design billboard(Moses riding a T-Rex), it looks like you'd have protection.

Quote from: Dracones;1108039You're basically mirroring the problem with the entire woke movement. Some people somewhere lose their shit over basically nothing, then the fact that people are losing their shit over something becomes the proof that there's a problem. Now that we've established "a problem" that then causes more reaction of people losing their shit over that "established" problem and signalling that they're a good person by losing their shit over it. Though really no one involved knows what the problem actually is, they just know there's "a problem" and that they need to be outraged over it.

What are you wittering on about? People not being able to marry the people they wanted to - which had real, traumatic, non-religious impacts - was finally overturned after decades of battling. The religious right continuing to try to undermine that outcome is a Quote Unquote Problem?

Quote from: Motorskills;1108033And that public shift is mirrored by Big Business being far more on the side of light these days. Their customers and their employees aren't standing for it any more.

Yeah, you can't possibly be pushing a social justice agenda here....... :rolleyes:

Quote from: Motorskills;1108051What are you wittering on about? People not being able to marry the people they wanted to - which had real, traumatic, non-religious impacts - was finally overturned after decades of battling. The religious right continuing to try to undermine that outcome is a Quote Unquote Problem?

1> Guy in Colorado doesn't want to design a cake for a gay wedding. He also doesn't design cakes for the KKK, obscene material, etc and so forth.
2> Gay wedding couple sues. They lose the case because 1st amendment.
3> More lawsuits get piled onto the guy purely with the intent to bankrupt him even though he wins.
4> Indiana says screw that, you can't sue people into poverty based on their beliefs.
5> Far left takes the entire thing out of context and act like they're repealing gay marriage or something.

I mean your own quote "The religious right continuing to try to undermine that outcome" is another example of that. This bill had nothing to do with overturning gay marriage, but the outrage culture sure likes to make it seem that way. That doesn't make it a good bill. Like jhkim pointed out, how it applies may be wonkey. What if you're agnostic. Today I'm a Buddhist, tomorrow I'm an Atheist. So which beliefs are protected? How they define religion is real open. The same with what does "burdensome" mean.

But the problem is that Woke-ness is adding nothing to that conversation. It's just small groups grasping for power via outrage and people following along to be good little citizens. What's really sad is that the movement seems to have nuked classical liberal culture. It's like today we have the far right burning D&D books because of Satan and now the far left burning D&D books because Feminism/White-ness/Metzner/insert fashionable cause here.