Quote from: Simlasa;1098395But is it worth the $$$ I'd spend doing it, when I can pretty much do all those things online throughout the year?
It seems to me that many of the benefits of a con have been met by social media and online gaming.

The benefit of the con is Discovery. People you would have never looked at have booths that you can walk past.

The spectacle is also fun and meeting RPG designers in the flesh.

Oh and some people like demoing board games, some of which haven't been released yet.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1098456The benefit of the con is Discovery. People you would have never looked at have booths that you can walk past.

Meh... I get that by trawling through the gaming blogs and the pages of DTRPG.

QuoteThe spectacle is also fun and meeting RPG designers in the flesh.

Meh again... except for Raggi and the DCC crowd I'm not enough of a fanboy to care about meeting RPG designers.

QuoteOh and some people like demoing board games, some of which haven't been released yet.

THAT does sound like fun... maybe I should go to a board game convention?

Quote from: Simlasa;1098461THAT does sound like fun... maybe I should go to a board game convention?

If we're being honest with ourselves, Gencon is predominantly a boardgame/wargame convention that also has RPGs. The former two actually make money.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1098464If we're being honest with ourselves, Gencon is predominantly a boardgame/wargame convention that also has RPGs. The former two actually make money.

Really, the main reasons for my lack of interest is that it just sounds like a HUGE hassle for what I'd get out of it. Something smaller, and closer to home... possibly better focused on things I'm specifically interested in, would be a better use of time/financial resources.

I have no interest in attending Gencon. The RPG market segment that Gencon serves isn't part of the market I'm interested in, and Gencon is too big, too much hassle, and too broad in focus. If I'm going to attend a convention, it will be a much smaller convention that has a focus on the games I'm interested in.

GenCon is a Woodstock type event for nerd hobbies; as is ComicCon as well.

Go just so you can say you've been; and also to prove to your family that this really is a hugely popular hobby.  It can't give enough gaming return for the financial investment required to make the trip from far away, in my opinion.

I've been to a couple of GenCons in Lake Geneva, a couple in Milwaukee, several in Indy. I go mostly for the shopping and for the chance to talk to some folks I know in the industry.

What I don't get is this: GenCon keeps outgrowing its venue (which is why it kept moving) yet is continually adding in non-RPG content. Why is that?

I mean, if I was outgrowing my space I don't think I would have so much anime or comic book or other stuff at the convention. It's supposed to be a GAMING convention. If you look at the booths you will see some that sell sci fi movie products, or Ren Faire garb, or even board games. Then the convention is so big that you have to go through a lottery system in order to maybe win the chance to buy hotel space. That's just crazy.

GaryCon is better. Heck, we have several tiny conventions near Chicago (COD Con, Opportunity Attacks) or Madison (GameHole Con) that have more of an RPG focus. I just don't get why GenCon has to fill up with non-RPG content.

Ima gonna hijack ...

The start of a series of posts about GenCon.

Back in my day milk cost $.25!

I'm local to Indy and work/park nearby, so travel costs are essentially $0 for me. For my family of four the costs were: $484 - 4 x 4-day badges, $180 - Event Tickets

That's $664 to play in seven games, or about $23 per game per person ... plus, of course, I've purchased the right to enter the dealer hall and buy more from the vendors.

Most events are charged at $1 an hour, in 2-hour increments, so a 5-hour game is $6. That's the GenCon fee. On top of that, a DM can up charge for the ticket. So a 2-hour game that normally costs $2 (the GenCon cost) could have an additional $2 (or whatever) charged by the DM and they get to keep the money. Once example is TrueDungeon, charging $80 for a 2-hour ticket. Baldman Games, running 5e for WTC, charges $3 an hour, so a typical 4-hour experience (the usual for a con RPG game) runs you $12 a person.

My Schedule had two up charges:  Call of Cthulhu Game charging $2/hour/a person and an AD&D Game charging the same. Both were among the worst game experiences I had at GenCon. Comically bad.

I can afford this. It also sticks in my craw for some reason. I would not be surprised if it has something to do with expectations, since that seems to be a theme with me. But it also feels like I'm being ripped off.

The Cthulhu games was comically bad (next post) and only lasted two hours, meaning I paid $4/hour instead of $2. For one of the worst RPG experiences I've ever had.

I don't have a point. I think I'm talking about my feelings. Bu something feels wrong. Maybe I think GenCon is high cost and low value. Maybe the con is no longer GenCon but more of a DragonCon/ComicCon sort of con and I've not adapted.




Game 1 - AD&D, $8 ($32 total) 4h

This was a classic module. I suspected problems right away when I saw the milk crates full of books and the large player count. I was further altered by what I might call loudmouth or braggart DM conduct. I'm sure we've all encountered the type. They talk about TPK's and glories from days past. And they do it over an over again. A lot. This had me apprehensive before the game. What we got was a VERY slow game. We made it through two encounters in four hours. There were secret notes galore from the DM. Each one seemed to take an eternity, at least five minutes each, if not more. There were LONG DM pauses while they looked things up in books and so on. At one point random treasure, a LOT of random treasure, was rolled up. Like "You find a body, it's a 21st level archmage. An human, about 35 you think, with grey eyes and blond hair dressed in a green robe with a purple cloak." And then a LONG list of equipment ... which then became just magical equipment, thank god. A lot of dead high-level bodies with mega magic items. We then needed to level our characters to continue, about 90 minutes before the game was over. Before this game, if I were to describe a stereotypical bad AD&D game, this would be it. Some of this would be appropriate for a home game but not a con game. But, the vast majority was just a bad DM who thought they were a great DM. Again, classic AD&D adventure, 2 encounters. It was obvious that at least half the table was miserable. Five players made excuses and left before the end of the game. This was put on by a third party DM group and the DM was older.

Game 2 - B/X - Stonehell - No upcharge 4h

Another game with a large player count, but in contrast to the first game the DM was very good. Able to conduct the game in a fast-paced manner, control the table, allow everyone to get a turn and so on. We explored a decent amount of the dungeon. The DM knew the dungeon having run it quite a bit, and didn't get bogged down looking things up or in table issues. This was a good old school game with a decent mix of player types. I feel like everyone had engaged and had a good time with a lot of old school play style going on. This was an independent DM, and younger.

Game 3 - Wild West - No upcharge 4h

Some guys homebrew system which initially had me agape at the complexity of the character sheet. It ended up being a lot like BRP/CoC though, with it's long list of skills, etc with Hard and Extreme checks. We were to rob a stagecoach. It was VERY open ended, with what seemed like a just a goal and little to be railroaded by. There were not many players, just one more besides us, who we elected leader of our gang. He was a good player. I think we all enjoyed ourselves, including the DM, who did a good job responding to our (and our leaders) old school antics. "First, we derail a traincar full of widows and orphans as a distraction, ot, barring that, burn down the schoolhouse after locking the doors."

Game 4 - Wild Skies - No upcharge 2h

An indie game where, it turns out, we're all anthropomorphic animals in a Utopian version of the US during the 30's. (And we stayed out of WW1? What's up with that?) If I'd known the animal thing beforehand I wouldn't not have bought tickets, memories of Ironclaw/jadeclaw games dancing in my head ... but, we were the only players and the DM was not creepy and did not present the setting as a creepy one. The game was VERY fast and loose, my daughter commented later that there were no failure consequences, which made it hard to enjoy. "You just keep rolling till yo succeed, whats the point?" Indeed Little Girl, (who I need to find a new nickname for since you're 20 now), Fiasco might be a fun activity but it doesn't fit my definition of a game. Anyway very face-paced DM, almost abstracted, I think because of our no-nonsense almost meta play style during the game. DM did a good job.

Game 5 - DCC - No upcharge 4h

It's DCC. I've yet to have a bad DCC DM and DCC is perfect for one-shots and con games. The DM was decent, keeping things moving and fun. The other players were decent also. I played a thief. Never play the thief in DCC; it must be the most boring class. My wife was dressed like a cleric that day so she played the cleric. It was a good game.

Game 6 - Call of Cthulhu - $8 ($32 total) 4h

This game lasted 2 hours, and was presented by a premier group. It was COMICALLY bad. Another loudmouth/braggart DM. Then the game started and he kept falling asleep during almost any pause. He could have been drunk, with some slurring, in the early afternoon. He spent long amounts of time looking mundane things up, like the stats for a specific pistol a player had. He literally read one entry after another in the adventure. As in we were in the entryway of the house, players announced which rooms they were going to, and he then ready the Dining Room entry, obviously the next entry in the text of the adventure. He would read the DM text like "When the players search they will find ..."  He literally said that, multiple times. Then he left and came back energized. Too much so. He had a member of the group go crazy and attack people, starting with me. The guy did 7 of 9 HP, then the DM said I went in to shock and took four more and died. Then he attacked other players, killing more. Then he announced tentacles coming out of places, grabbing people, which resulted in more deaths. Then the two last people shot someone who suddenly appeared on a tower and the DM said " You won." Not really any investigation at all. Over in two hours. I've played in some REALLY bad con game but this may have been the worst. The DM was older. It's a shame, CoC usually makes for a good con game.

Game 7 - AD&D- No upcharge 5h

A classic 3rd party adventure from the early days. Using AD&D, complete with weapon length, speed, and armor class weapon mods, printed on the sheet. This had me freaked out. Using that shit in a con game is essentially performance art. Fortunately, it didn't happen. The DM, a younger guy, ran the game well. Fast, fun, old school playstyle. There were 5 players who were just over 21 or so. They were among the best old school players I've ever played with. Creative, inventive, non bogged down in stuff, able to have a good time. They said they'd been playing first edition all week. There was another player, a loudmouth braggart. Cleric charges for healing. Self-aggrandizing statements, etc. It was bad enough we almost left just a few minutes in to the game. I'm glad we didn't though, the other group was very good and fun.

I clearly have a problem with the loudmouth/braggart type. Or,maybe, I've learned to be cautious around them, as a warning sign of experiences to come. My two bad games, which were both REALLY bad, came from established DM organizations and all had ticket upcharges. I don't want to emphasize the older DM thing too much, but it's just another data point on the "ought oh" scale. A DM who is too focused on themselves and/or the rules instead of the flow of the table, especially at a con game, is what the real issue is. I'm sure there are older DM's who have never left the AD&D system who are good.

All of this over analysis is directed at reg next year. The most terrifying microsecond in existence as you push the submit button exactly at noon, hoping that you get some decent game. But it starts weeks before, as you build your wish list of events ,trying to push the percentages of good games to add. Reg during GenCon is close to impossible, with long lines and it very likely that you'll find four seats open for a six seat RPG. "Learn to play" RPG games tend to be the starter adventure from the core book, run by a volunteer.

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1098498Ima gonna hijack ...

The start of a series of posts about GenCon.

Back in my day milk cost $.25!

Your experience makes me glad that my city's con is much, much smaller.

I just got back yesterday from my second gen con and it was a blast.  Played a couple of rpg games with fantastics storytellers and the vendors hall is a wonder in itself.  Worth every dime.

GenCon looks to be turning into yet another pop culture convention, they're just doing a shitty job of it.

Quote from: Theory of Games;1098258I've never been.

Seems like a shopping expedition. I've seen the vids of people washing through the facility.

Never seen a great game run there, which would be a draw for me.

GenCon should be this epic yearly event, teasing adventures and great GMs that would make me travel across country.

I don't see the draw. At all.

Thoughts?

When I went, every single game I played was incredible. Best GMing I've had in my life. And...not a single game was even at the convention center. All were people I knew from online, running a game in the lobby of a hotel nearby. Not that I felt my ticket was worthless as I enjoyed the convention floor, but technically none of my games were at a location where I actually needed a badge to play.

I'd never go to GenCon without some friends that wanted to go too. I went to a couple in the Milwaukee days, and a decent number of them in Indianapolis. I'd have to say it took me a couple/few times to work out how to best experience it.

1.) The Dealer's Hall is a thing at all of these game & comic book conventions. It can be fun to either pick up the new hotness or dig for something in the hall, but it can also be a slog and the worst thing, as this is where the crowds are worst. I will swing through once, then consider it something to re-visit as a filler if I can't come up with anything better to check out. The internet means you're less likely to find cool old stuff for a decent price here than in the old days, but if you swing through the auction/consignment room you might get lucky.
2.) I've given up buying event tickets, I just grab some generic tickets, browse the catalog and jot down options I might consider trying. Finding scheduled games (of unknown quality) is just a huge pain and something they could improve.
3.) "Games on Demand" has been a pretty reliable way for me to walk up and try some games. They kick off a set of games every 2 hours (for 2 to 4 hour blocks), but the games do lean very indie and story-gamey. I like trying out these games, as I never get to play them anywhere else, but you have to be flexible and willing to give something a shot, or your preferred game may fill up and you'll have wasted your time seeing if you get in on a game.
4.) An open BattleTech game or some board games are also a decent option. Bad rando-RPers are less likely to ruin games of this sort.
5.) You can also find some nice seminars, authors talking about things, game companies talking about upcoming products, etc. These are nice and laid back.
6.) From the Dealer's Hall, Games on Demand, or just random wandering around and socializing, you can sometimes get yourself into some after-hours/off-the-books style games. Like, a lot of companies, at their booths, if you dig their game you can sometimes find out they have someone or are aware of someone running games of their stuff you can get in on.

So, for me, a typical day has something like: I immediately abandon my friends and go solo. Maybe 1 seminar? 2 to 3 RPG sessions (one of which will be in a hotel at night, if not with others, with the friends I came with). A bit of Dealer's Hall wandering. Eating out with friends I came with (usually just dinner, sometimes lunch too). Assorted things like stopping by the Circle Mall for something, or playing some arcade games in a room might happen.

Like, it won't change your life, but if you can get out somewhere with your friends for a long weekend, play a couple/few games a day, and don't get bogged down too heavily with the crowds, and have a room close enough to walk from, it can be a fun way to blow a weekend. I live about 4.5 hours away, so that's do-able. I wouldn't fly for it. I think you'd have just as much fun at large RPG Cons that aren't GenCon, with the added benefit of easier lodging logistics and less crowd issues.

Anyways, that's my personal experience.

GenCon stopped being relevant when they started getting political and eschewed gaming.

How is gencon political? It came off pretty neutral when attending