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Author Topic: Is D&D Still Relevant?  (Read 2383 times)

S'mon

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Is D&D Still Relevant?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 03:29:28 am »
2e is 1e drifted in a 3e direction.
5e is 3e drifted in a 2e direction.
:D
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nDervish

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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 08:21:01 am »
Is D&D still relevant to the market/hobby?  Sure.  Despite all the others that have come out over the decades, D&D remains the best-selling, most-played, and most-imitated RPG of all time.  If you add in its direct imitators (Pathfinder/Starfinder, OSR, every "OGL d20 System" product, etc.), I would be shocked if D&D doesn't still account for an absolute majority of all RPG purchases, player numbers, and play hours.

Is D&D still relevant to me personally?  Nah, not really, other than as a lingua franca of RPG discussions.  There are so many other systems that I like better that I have a hard time seeing D&D ever coming in as a game I regularly play again.  (And, since you mentioned it in the OP:  No, GURPS is not one of those systems.)

Scrivener of Doom

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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 10:15:36 am »
Quote from: Theory of Games;1130313
(snip) Gary said, "There is no relationship between 3E and original D&D, or OAD&D for that matter. Different games, style, and spirit." (snip)


That was Gary's subjective opinion, probably motivated by the massive chip he carried on his shoulder like a tumour. Perhaps if he had been more successful he might have been a lot less resentful and churlish about those who took his ideas and built on them. It seems there's a fair bit of the fan base who actually see the relationship between and among all of the editions so far. Others may not. YMMV.

But D&D is clearly still relevant because it is the market leader.
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Kuroth

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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 07:45:44 pm »
Some of that comment by Gygax is a fall back to TSR dogma about how unique D&D/AD&D is even when another game has like only one attribute more to make it 'totally different' and so on.  Yet, at the same time in those days they would have complaints written at everything under the sun.
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tenbones

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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2020, 09:41:49 am »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1130386
Is beef making you fat?

Click here to find out!

I think this question is more important that the OP's questions.

Lurkndog

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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2020, 10:09:53 am »
Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1130455
But D&D is clearly still relevant because it is the market leader.

In terms of being a full-time enterprise with actual employees doing it as their day job, it is almost the sole survivor.

Trond

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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2020, 01:18:58 pm »
Yes it is relevant, but I wish it was a little less so. What I mean is that D&D has always held on to so much of the roleplaying crowd. Most stores I know where you can buy actual RPG books have D&D only. A little more balance would be great.

David Johansen

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« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2020, 07:49:17 pm »
I think that's as much the move to kickstarter as anything though.
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Razor 007

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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2020, 01:53:39 pm »
Quote from: Theory of Games;1130313
There's been three tiers of D&D:

BECMI

AD&D

3rd-5th editions

Gary said, "There is no relationship between 3E and original D&D, or OAD&D for that matter. Different games, style, and spirit."

So when I see people talk about 5e being like 2e, I .... No.

Approaching a "6th edition", what?

How did GURPS not win this rpg battle?

I read people who think they are rpg experts and they end up in quicksand. Because they do not know what D&D was and how it changed. It's like the language changed mid-sentence.

Game theory, is all ....

I can't believe you just lumped 4th Edition in, with the 3rd and 5th Editions.  Can you imagine the anguish that is causing, amongst the 4th Edition fanbase?
I need you to roll a perception check.....

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2020, 07:52:10 pm »
Quote from: Lynn;1130316
The games are all playable as separate systems.

While Gary can say "Different games, style, and spirit," that's being disingenuous from the perspective of marketing. Each game was (until recently, with PDFs) sold for the most part, serially. They adopted and changed source material from each other, and utilized the same intellectual property from each other. They learned lessons on how not to cannibalize their own product sales.

This is the same reason why studios and other creators are hypocritical a-holes for deriding fans of canon. The product marketing leverages the good will and personal / emotional investment of those fans of canon in order to sell them on new entries into their franchises.


D&D barely has a canon, at least that many people care about. Sure, it has a bazillion campaign settings set in a self-described multiverse... but it's always been a game where canon is fast and loose and doesn't get in the way of the party's adventures.

Forgotten Realms isn't popular because it has canon. It's popular because it's extremely generic, easy to adventure in, and Wizards is unwilling to support multiple settings since that killed TSR.

Most RPGs aren't played for the canon. The canon just provides a starting point for newbies. From there you either remain lazy and complacent, or you make your own campaign setting.

Kuroth

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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2020, 08:16:07 pm »
Mindful of the caveat that 'collectors' support 'canon' bloat.  (that is my quota of quote words for the week, hate doing that ha)  So, there are games that is pretty much all they are.
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Shasarak

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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2020, 08:20:09 pm »
DnD has near on 50 years of canon at this point.  It has so much canon that people take pride in trying to invert the DnD tropes.
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Kuroth

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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2020, 08:29:58 pm »
Specific to D&D, I am not sure that canon is quite the right word, since it is such a confused mess over time (decades) in the various settings and main books, even adventures that have been rewritten o many times.  Other games are often better examples of pure canon fixation. Edit: It is more like brand loyalty for D&D, to get to the point.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 08:39:13 pm by Kuroth »
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Pat

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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2020, 08:44:26 pm »
Quote from: Kuroth;1130857
Specific to D&D, I am not sure that canon is quite the right word, since it is such a confused mess over time (decades) in the various settings and main books, even adventures that have been rewritten o many times.  Other games are often better examples of pure canon fixation.

Maybe implied canon? There is a vast amount of canon associated with the settings, but I agrees it's not really the heart of the game. It's more of a sidebar, and is both slippery and subject to revision. The strongest canon in D&D isn't the specific setting canon, it's the bits and pieces that make up the implied setting. Beholders, dragons that come in colored types, all the various things that are sometimes labeled sacred cows, and everything else that's part of the default expectations. It's really hard to define exactly what, how much, and in what proportions is necessary for the game to remain D&D, but there's a lot of it, and it limits and constrains what can be done by providing a lot of detail that must be incorporated or worked around, so it is a form of canon.

Kuroth

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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2020, 08:52:40 pm »
That is why I think it is more about brand loyalty, because even those common elements are often pretty different between editions. Other games work hard to keep all that straight, because collectors. Whatever the case,  as far as these things are a part of the new game players' experience?  Don't really see those as that much to do with them.  That has more to do with peers and their interests as a group.
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