Cody of Taking20 (one of the few YouTubers I donate to), posted a new video today that is... interesting.

Is Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition killing off the game part of role-playing games? Cody believes that there's been a shift in role-playing over the past couple of years, thanks to D&D 5E and Critical Role, that stresses role-playing over gaming.


[video=youtube_share;Fu7VcSc3QfA]https://youtu.be/Fu7VcSc3QfA[/youtube]

Hmm. I think 5e is definitely less game and combat focused than 4e. But overall it's just more balanced, it's not anti combat or anti challenge. It sees combat as one third of a typical game, not 90%.

I think it has attracted some players less interested in Gamist/challenge the player play. But the numbers of players I see who are only interested in showing off their special snowflake pc's narrative arc is pretty tiny. Most players want the kind of balanced play Mearls designed 5e for.

No.  We have more RPG's now then ever before.  Look around, don't let this board convince you otherwise.

5e is much better for the kind of D&D played on TV/Podcast. That's obviously more narrative focused and the TV is what draws people into the hobby.

It's hard to market the wargame aspect, because you kind of have to be playing it to see if you like that kind of thing. Watching the attractive cast of Community Roleplay for two episodes just doesn't have that disconnect.

So since 5e can actually be played that way, people who had interest because of those TV things find a place to stay.

Quote from: S'mon;1061699Hmm. I think 5e is definitely less game and combat focused than 4e. But overall it's just more balanced, it's not anti combat or anti challenge. It sees combat as one third of a typical game, not 90%.

I think it has attracted some players less interested in Gamist/challenge the player play. But the numbers of players I see who are only interested in showing off their special snowflake pc's narrative arc is pretty tiny. Most players want the kind of balanced play Mearls designed 5e for.

I would agree that it is less game and combat focused than 4e. However, I don't think that this is more balanced. Whether there is 90% combat, 33% combat, 10% combat, or 0% combat - all of those are fine and perfectly balanced. It's a matter of taste how much combat you're catering to, and I don't think any of them are wrong.

I do note the high popularity of Gloomhaven, say, which is 100% focused RPG-like combat.

Quote from: jhkim;1061707I would agree that it is less game and combat focused than 4e. However, I don't think that this is more balanced. Whether there is 90% combat, 33% combat, 10% combat, or 0% combat - all of those are fine and perfectly balanced. It's a matter of taste how much combat you're catering to, and I don't think any of them are wrong.

I didn't say it was better. I said it had a more balanced - more even - ratio between the three pillars. You apparently have some other definition of balance.

Killing off other rpgs certainly not imo.

Much more known and popular most definitively again imo.

Many who run it using the making videos on YouTube, the Internet to get showcase 5E.

It's also helped with the game being easier to learn and teach.

That's a big ol' negative from me. Pretending to be a magical elf during story time goes way back, DL saga at least. Modules being more story-focused than challenge-focused also goes back to 3rd ed at least, probably earlier.

Since I first got into RPGs in the 90s, the industry was being killed off by... [insert your choice here].

I wonder if, on day 2, someone said "RPGs are dying..."

Nope.  I help out running RPGs clubs, one of which is a dedicated 5e group, but even that spawns new private groups for all sorts of other RPGs, campaigns etc for other RPGs.

Some of which are Stars without Number, Call of Cthulhu, Mistborn and other various RPGs that these clubs have helped get going.

I think the opposite. The popularity of 5e has brought more people to RPGs in general.  Sure a lot of people start on 5e, but it opens up a large world other RPGs to them that people want to run.

Playing/Running RPGs has never been this good.  

Well I thought this was going to be about a shift to people talking with funny voices at the table instead of rolling dice. he is just talking rules heft.

At the end he finally hit on what I was thinking the whole time. This is just a perspective issue, many here, myself included have been gaming longer than he has been alive.

He started with the relatively crunchy D&D 3E, lived through the apparently even crunchier(?) 4E and now sees a move towards a lighter system with 5E gaining ground over 3E / Pathfinder and similar rule heavy games.

Those who have been around a while have seen this before in the late 90s, early 2000s when rules lite and story games were the hot new things, and people were lamenting (or in some cases celebrating, always a few assholes) the death of the crunch heavy games that became popular in the 80s, early 1990s.

I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Vampire became popular, then FUDGE, FATE, Powered by Apocalypse, LARPing etc. For a time it looked like the classic Runequest was dead, replaced by Heroquest.
There was some push back, HERO made a good run in the early 2000s before over extending themselves, also the long awaited GURPS 4E which added crunch to an already crunchy game. Mongoose revived Runequest with extra crunchy bits. Riddle of Steel was never huge, but it was visible and definitely appealed to the crunch inclined.

Lots of room for different play styles, rarely an either or.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1061703No.  We have more RPG's now then ever before.  Look around, don't let this board convince you otherwise.

No kidding when I start perusing DrivethruRPG not looking for anything in particular just checking out what is out there I pretty much vaporlock. There is so much available these days.

The idea that RPing means standing around talking to friendly NPCs but never combat is just weird to me. My PCs use wildly different combat tactics depending on their personalities and a lot of my favorite RPing moments have been in the middle of combat. Stuff like boarding and enemy biplane with a rapier and a bungee cord in a Steampunk game shows a lot more about that PC's personality than how he orders his drinks or whatever.

I havent seen the video (at work currently) but I agree that shows like CR are emphasizing the roleplaying aspect, and shirking the game aspect, of RPGs. For me personally, Gamplay > Plot, so I dislike this approach. I dont think 5e perse is any less gamey than earlier editions. Shows like CR are just playing 5e in a specific way  - a way which suits a show, as opposed to a game.

I'm often surprised how little most current gamers known about games besides D+D; that wasn't my experience of the community a long time ago when 1E was overwhelmingly dominant in the hobby, yet everyone knew about, and often played other things. It feels like a bit of a mono culture crop growing the middle of an old abandoned lot full of wild flowers. The new-ish 5E players I know don't seem particularly curious about other games, either. On the other hand, it is honestly a pretty solid fantasy roleplaying game. So, its not like they are all playing trash or something.

Quote from: Apparition;1061696Is Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition killing off the game part of role-playing games? Cody believes that there's been a shift in role-playing over the past couple of years, thanks to D&D 5E and Critical Role, that stresses role-playing over gaming.

The crap style of '70s D&D adventure gaming will never die. It's growing, because fat lazy players are growing.