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Author Topic: Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs  (Read 1703 times)

Opaopajr

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 09:51:01 PM »
Yes. It is definitional within the words, people.

Pre-gen is a jargon shorthand for previously generated player character.

An NPC, a non-player character, may or may not have a character sheet.

Loaning a non-player character to someone does not definitionally convert the NPC into a PC. It MAY, in the future. But it does not HAVE TO. It completely depends on how GM accords management of their responsibilities and whether delegation is at all allowed. One may view it as GM merely temporary imbuing an outsider the extremely minor "co-GM"ing responsibility of one non-player character only.

Read any more into it and you are wasting your time. You both sound like you are just confusing yourselves about the technique at hand.
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JonTheBrowser

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2013, 10:14:11 PM »
The easiest way to have the NPC the new person is using continue to be an NPC is to acknowledge that they have not yet fully embraced the role of being a player at this point.  When they take full ownership of a character (including a character someone else made for them) then they're fully into the role of being a player.  Until then, they're like a temp who has not yet been hired on to regular staff.  Like a GM's assistant that's been brought in to control one of the many non-PCs.  When they transition into being a full participant rather than just checking it out to see if they like it, then you can start talking about their character as a PC.  Whether they keep their existing one or develop a new one.

smiorgan

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2013, 02:09:47 AM »
I'm going to use the terminology I like:
  • PC--character under control of a player
  • NPC--character under control of the GM
  • DPC--character "owned" and "directed" by the GM but played/portrayed by another player/co-GM. q.v. "monster" in LARP.

It's all semantics, really. If it suits you better to call DPCs PCs with no char sheet, or to argue that we're all just a bunch of C's (ain't that the truth), that's fine. We applied that distinction for years as a way of getting marginal players hooked on playing, to introduce experienced players to GMing (as a co-GM), etc.

Much of the argument above has been assuming all players are at the same experience level, and will be equally happy and confident to integrate into a new game. That will never be the case. The DPC is just one trick to draw people in. As people get more confident all of these distinctions merge--which is why my (insular, reactionary) extended group just doesn't talk about this sort of thing any more.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635245
I believe one of the primary functions of an RPG system is in fact to give people 'permission to be someone important' as you say. And while I have seen the PC/NPC difference you describe, I've also seen the same with self created characters, and I believe the root has more to do with emotional distance that specifically NPCdom (though the idea that an NPC gives a player MORE permission to be important than a PC is still an odd one to me)
Quote
In what way? What psychological factors and/or system mechanic is behind that agency?

Barriers to perform that are based on how well the new player knows the existing group; their willingness to integrate with the group; their confidence in playing in front of a new group they don't know.

"Importance" is the wrong word. A better definition is need to establish the character. A walk-on DPC doesn't have to compete with the shared history of the rest of the group.

Quote
What about the opposite, where the NPCs player wants to continue playing that NPC and join the group?

That's rarely a problem in-game. I have done it. It's only ever been a problem out of game when a player expects to be invited back and aren't (usually they're upset because of crossed wires).

Quote
Personally, I don't believe in PCs or NPCs, just Cs which change function depending on context.

I tend to agree, but defining roles and expectations is useful for a lot of people.

The Traveller

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2013, 03:45:53 AM »
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635104
To be less trolly, how is this any different from just giving new players a pregen to start with?

Quote from: jhkim;635213
OK, at first I was thinking of this as just nomenclature, but something seems wrong here.  Isn't is totally backwards if an NPC gives you more agency to be actively involved than a PC does?  To the extent that this is true, it should be fixed for all PCs - not just for certain players in their first game.  

I'd view it as a great learning tool to help new players get the hang of this roleplaying lark without having to understand everything a fulltime player would probably need to, at a minimum in terms of the character sheet. NPCs are generally not nearly as fully detailed as PCs, with good reason, otherwise the burden of running them would be way too high, and as such represent a lower barrier to entry.

Call it a taste test as well as a tutorial, an all round winner. Once they've gotten the hang of the essentials they will be in a much better position to build their own characters.
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jeff37923

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2013, 03:52:38 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;635213
OK, at first I was thinking of this as just nomenclature, but something seems wrong here.  Isn't is totally backwards if an NPC gives you more agency to be actively involved than a PC does?  To the extent that this is true, it should be fixed for all PCs - not just for certain players in their first game.  

With established players, I would totally give the player input to their goals and motivations - as well as all other parts to their character.  However, if I'm pre-generating everything else, it doesn't seem wrong to me to also pre-generate goals and motivations.


You are thinking about it too much. Stop that, you will only confuse yourself as you read more into it than there is.

This is just a way for someone to try a RPG. Think of it as training wheels for someone who has never played a RPG before.
"Meh."

jeff37923

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2013, 03:53:51 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;635239
Maybe some concrete examples would help?


This is just an idea of mine so far. I don't have any concrete examples because I have not tried it yet.
"Meh."

jeff37923

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2013, 04:00:55 AM »
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635245
In what way? What psychological factors and/or system mechanic is behind that agency?


You are thinking about this too much.

(And why do I have to figure out any psychological factors or rules mechanic to make this work?)

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635245
What about the opposite, where the NPCs player wants to continue playing that NPC and join the group?


Then they get to keep the character and join the group.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635245
Personally, I don't believe in PCs or NPCs, just Cs which change function depending on context.


So the problem is with your worldview and not the idea. Gotcha.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;635245
But really, give a new player a PC and they can always change the details later, or keep them if they like them.


One of the things I love about RPGs is the ability to create my own character to play in the game. I would not want to take that away from someone, but I recognize that creating a character may be an added barrier to entry with someone who is only casually interested in playing a tabletop RPG and looking for a simple way to be introduced to them.
"Meh."

Opaopajr

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2013, 04:32:54 AM »
I am OK with using smiorgan's new label, DPC (or DNPC?), to distinguish this. It is as good as any new term, and "directed" helps suggest the distinction.

Until a better terminology comes around I will use this here on this forum (unless I forget, which can happen now that I am getting older).
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
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RPGPundit

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2013, 02:13:57 AM »
Yeah, I still think a pregen, made by the GM if you prefer, is the way to go.

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Opaopajr

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2013, 03:17:06 AM »
Heh, I thought so until my first CCGer essentially quit after 10 minutes. Ret-conning mid-adventure, god forbid mid-battle (which I've seen, sadly), gets ugly. I was weak-hearted to try multiple times after. Now I favor simpler systems, shorter battles, and pre-gens go to people who want to commit at least 2+ hours minimum.

I've learned the error of my generous pre-gen ways.

PS: I also had people want to customize the pre-gen, attempting to hold everything up to get every last bonus or obscure anime cliche. The only thing worse than the short-attention span flake is the whiny-customizer, short-attention span snowflake. Again, I have learned the value of the viking hat's horns through experience.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Daddy Warpig

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Intro To Role-Playing via NPCs
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2013, 08:19:22 AM »
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