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Author Topic: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!  (Read 1175 times)

SHARK

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Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« on: August 03, 2021, 08:14:48 AM »
Greetings!

Ok, well, in our own real-world history, way out in Eastern Russia, along the central and upper Volga River, there was the Volga Tatars, or the Volga Bulgars, that formed their own powerful and wealthy kingdom, which also later developed into the Khanate of Kazan. These folks were primarily a Turkish people, though also heavily mixed with Slavs from the west, and Central Asian tribal peoples from the vast steppes to their south and east. Add in some Siberian North-Asian people mixing with them as well from their northern frontiers. They had large cities, lots of fortified, walled towns and villages, a sophisticated army that blended elements of heavy infantry, heavy armoured cavalry, along with well-organized urban militia, archers, as well as horse-archers and heavy lancers inspired from the Steppe tribes. They were immensely wealthy merchants, and had a complex economy with great specialization. At different times, they also had prominent fur trading industries, which became so wealthy and prominent that furs were also used as a form of common barter currency, in addition to coins. A huge blending of Eastern European culture, Steppe culture, and by extension, some elements of Asian culture and Persian culture. Then, they were also Muslims. They were typically industrious, prosperous, and friendly, and distinctly peaceful. They welcomed Slavic Pagans, Christians, Steppe Barbarian Pagans, and Asian Buddhists. Even more *primitive* Siberian-Asian Pagan Animists. Georaphically, their culture and society was heavily influenced by rugged hills and mountains to the north, vast forests to the north, west, and north-east, with endless steppes to their south, south-east, and eastern frontiers. Also, the immense Volga River and numerous tributary rivers greatly influenced their culture, economy, and social organization. They had a rich culture that embraced different, vibrant coloured clothing, dancing, music, food, art, and architecture. They also were--and more or less remain steadfast to the present day--in speaking their own native Tatar language, and maintaining many of their cultural customs and traditions. Historically, after ruling a successful realm for over four centuries, they were eventually subjugated by the Mongol Horde and subsequently the Russian Empire.

So, I have developed a similar culture in my own campaign world. The Khanate is ruled by humans, with their distinctive culture and such, with some other contributing human cultures and a few humanoid races, like wolf-humanoids, bovine-humanoids, and quadruped-Centaur tribes. There is a very nuanced and tolerant monotheistic Muslim-like religion, a vibrant urban culture, complex economy, and a sophisticated hybrid social culture that maintains a strong central core, while also embracing many very different and even contradictory cultural elements.

In my research, I am surprised to discover that the Muslim Bulgar Tatars of the Khanate of Kazan were usually peaceful, defensive in nature, and somewhat bewilderingly, seemingly committed to harmony and getting along with everyone around them. This of course sounds enlightened and civilized now--but in the Dark Ages and Middle Ages of Eastern Europe and the Steppe at the time--800 AD to 1250 AD or thereabouts--it seemed to be a hopelessly doomed and futile attitude to embrace. None the less, I think this culture and people are pretty admirable and fascinating! Perhaps especially so because they embraced such attitudes during such warlike and brutal times, surrounded on all sides by tribes, nations, and hordes eager to annihilate and conquer them at every opportunity!

As you can see, there is a whole lot going on in such an environment, from the culture, to economy, politics, religion, and more. Despite having walled and fortified villages, towns and cities, out on their borders, it was pretty much a lawless and savage wilderness in every direction. I am considering providing opportunities for one of my groups to visit this crazy Khanate, and interact with such an unusual people, culture, and environment.

How would you flesh out such an environment? The details and colour and potential contradictions and weirdness can seem bewildering. I'm also something of a stickler for verisimilitude, so I tend to like making the details fairly deep, and getting details roughly authentic. Just imagine the kind of NPC's you could develop for such an environment! Of course, the frontiers are filled with many savage monsters, as well as barbarian tribes!

Your thoughts, suggestions, and advice on presenting different kinds of characters, adventures, and integrating cultural and religious relationships in such a complex environment is most appreciated, friends! I'm also wondering how I actually integrate trading FURS for goods and services, as FURS were also used as a form of currency. *Laughing* Yeah, the furs were that plentiful! I've read that many merchants and even ordinary commoners made vast fortunes from fur trading--including more than a few women fur merchants and weavers and tailors! In the Dark Ages! ;D Oh, and of course--the Bulgar Tatars were also strictly patriarchal, and embraced many ancient and cherished traditions--which they seemed to enthusiastcally blend Pagan customs and traditions alongside Muslim customs and traditions, too. Women were evidently allowed considerable social and economic freedom, though their political participation seems to have been relatively minimal.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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tenbones

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 08:25:16 AM »
While I wasn't a big fan of the adventure modules (not that they weren't good or anything, I'm just not a big fan of modules in general) but the Hordelands Boxset and those supporting modules gave a GM everything they needed to get their Eurocentric Forgotten Realms characters to mix-n-match with the Kara-Tur boxset material by trekking/adventuring through the Hordelands which lay in-between.

I found it great fun to challenge my players with the various analog cultures of the Asian steppe. It's a great "toe-dip" into the more detailed stuff you're talking about, Shark, if you haven't looked at it already.

I love taking my players out of their comfort zone, and getting them into new cultures to have some kickass adventures.

SHARK

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 07:18:45 PM »
While I wasn't a big fan of the adventure modules (not that they weren't good or anything, I'm just not a big fan of modules in general) but the Hordelands Boxset and those supporting modules gave a GM everything they needed to get their Eurocentric Forgotten Realms characters to mix-n-match with the Kara-Tur boxset material by trekking/adventuring through the Hordelands which lay in-between.

I found it great fun to challenge my players with the various analog cultures of the Asian steppe. It's a great "toe-dip" into the more detailed stuff you're talking about, Shark, if you haven't looked at it already.

I love taking my players out of their comfort zone, and getting them into new cultures to have some kickass adventures.

Greetings!

That is awesome, Tenbones! I don't think I have that supplement in my collection! Damnit! It sounds very cool.

Yeah, I studied Ancient and Medieval History in college, specializing in Ancient Rome and Greece. However, I also had to have two secondary specialties--I picked American History, and Ancient China and India. My studies in Ancient China and India of course also soon embraced the study of Central Asia and the Steppe! It has been immensely intriguing and enlightening to me ever since! I am just blown away, my friend, at all the crazy, cool, sophisticated stuff that was going on over there during the centuries. Most of which we in the West at least, are typically entirely in the dark about and ignorant of. Vast wealth, new inventions, HUGE FORTIFIED CITIES! Hundreds of thousands of people in their cities. Silk, gold, spices, dancing girls, fine, beautiful women, magnificent horses, what is not to love? And all kinds of different religions and schisms going on, monasteries, breakthroughs in writing, texts, and producing books--long before the printing press was ever invented--they just had mass numbers of scribes get to work and copy, copy, copy! Very literate and sophisticated societies!

Fortunately, my players are also fascinated by this kind of stuff, so having fantastic cultures that embrace Central Asian and Indian cultures is a big hit with them and very popular.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Greentongue

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2021, 01:37:16 PM »
Maybe not exactly on topic but, have you ever looked into "Empire of the Petal Throne"?

It was very inspired by East Asian cultures and can be an example of how different things can get from "typical".

ScytheSong

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2021, 02:28:59 PM »
One of the more interesting things about the Khanate and its predecessors is that it maintained the Golden Horde's practice of the nobles gathering to elect the Khan. There were also at least a handful of times the nobles gathered to vote the Khan out. And apparently, there were a couple of Khans who were booted, the next guy was unsatisfactory, and they were reinstated. It's a medieval version of "the ruler only rules with the consent of those he rules." The role-playing opportunities in that sort of political atmosphere are huge.

Another thing to think about is whether your Islam-like religion has our Medieval Islam's obsession with education and literacy -- Clerics and Magic-users would have a leg up socially because of it.


Wrath of God

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 06:15:52 PM »
Quote
Historically, after ruling a successful realm for over four centuries, they were eventually subjugated by the Mongol Horde and subsequently the Russian Empire.

Only not. Or not exactly.

Volga Bulgars and Volga Tatars are two different ethnic groups.
Volga Bulgars known in modern time as Chuvash people - were different Turkic nation, only modern representant of Oghur branch of Turkic people (all other Turkic are Oghuz). They as all Turkic folk moved to Eastern Europe from Asia - conquering/vassalising Uralic nation of Mari (who belongs to Finno-Permian nations), and estabilishing own state (in fact two state - because it's no accident Slavic nation of Bulgarians bears same name - part of nomadic Empire known as Great Bulgaria settled in Volga-Dniestr region among vassalised tribes, rest moved further West and South, conquered mixed Slavic (and probably Greek) people in Eastern Balkan region - and estabilished series of states that led ultimately to modern Bulgaria. Those lost their language - adopting South Slavic dialect of their subject, and changed titles of rulers from Khans/Kagans to Tsars - which was Slavic corruption of Latin Caesar.

Meanwhile Chuvash/Volga Bulgars in probably 922 shifted to Islam probably to get alliance of Abassid Caliphate, and later had own state till conquered by Mongols in 1240s.

Now Volga Tatars or simply Tatars who know hold own Republic in Russia known as Tatarstan were also Turkic people, but not close kin to Bulgars, they were part of Mongolian hordes, as most of Turkic nations went under influence of Genghis Khan. Now modern Volga Tatars claim Bulgar ancestry and probably many had such - they definitely influenced themselves - but as culture they are offshot of mighty Kipchak Turks, who birthed many Turkic nations and ethnicities in Eurasia, Kipchaks.

Later those territories were occupied by Mongol Successor State known as Golden Horde. In 1438 territories more or less close to former Volga Bulgaria get independence after Golden Horde collapsed - this is Khanate of Kazan that was conquered by Tsardom of Russia 120 years later. Elites of Kazan were mix of Bulgars, Tatars and probably even Mongols of Golden Horde, but Tatars were dominant culture and new addition not present in time of Volga Bulgaria state.

While VB was indeed quite peaceful (relatively) after estabilishing itself - concentrated on protection of their privileged trade position - neither Bulgars in Europe, nor Kazan Tatars were not - the last were for basically all their history constantly warring with Russian princes, till downfall from hands of Ivan the Terrible.

So those were two different states of different origin though sharing territory and partially ethnic configuration.
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Merrill
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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2021, 07:35:37 PM »
I think it is an awesome canvas on which to create a game setting. I am a big proponent of having real-world, historical analogies in gaming, something that has been lost in the last 20 years or so

All kinds of things you can do here


Wrath of God

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2021, 08:38:15 PM »
Is it lost though.

I mean let's look at Golarion, world of Woke Paizo - while you have post-Apo California - Varisia, and I guess Italy pretending to be United States in form of Andoran - otherwise it's in many regards based on Real World. It seems many RPG setting are somehow like that
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

SHARK

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2021, 11:47:07 PM »
Greetings!

Hmmm...here are some Kazakh women wearing eastern-style armour, and weapons. Imagine if your character was a ruler with bodyguards like these women!

And, well, they sing, too! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

myleftnut

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Re: Inspiration from History and Challenging Your DM Skills!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2021, 12:58:45 AM »
One angle for your campaign is the steppe nomads creating a time of crisis for the settled empires.  It’s happened several time in history where there is a unification of the nomad tribes and they wreak havoc on the “civilized” world.  Huns, Parthians, Seljuk and Mongols are just a few examples.  Their migration was usually preceded by other peoples fleeing them, causing conflict on its own.