Quote from: Windjammer;752466Soooo.... the 5e roll out strikes you as an actual attempt to retake the RPG market lead?

Yes, and your faux-superiority contempt hardly changes that.

Quote from: S'mon;752594Umbran and the goddamnawful UI.

What is the UI?

Quote from: Windjammer;752466Soooo.... the 5e roll out strikes you as an actual attempt to retake the RPG market lead?

The fact the 5E release isn't catered to the online population of dogmatic grumblers is the most hopeful sign yet that they're aiming to retake the RPG market lead. Because when D&D is thriving, it's because it's market is built on a foundation of tens of thousands of casual gamers out there actually playing the game, not the hundreds of theorists, BNGs, and edition-warriors who complain about it endlessly online. Frankly, I'd be worried about the prospects of 5E if the OSR Taliban, denners, and RPGnet system-wonks were praising the roll-out.

Quote from: Mistwell;752577It is.  We're dealing with bad faith at this point.  Same sort of passive aggressive bullshit you find on EnWorld and RPG.net, only it's here now, and even some moderators are engaging in it just like fucking Umbran.

At least Benoist is now trying to back away from his outlandish claim that we should thank him for personally overthrowing 4E. You wouldn't get that at the big purple, just thread bans and the stamping out of all dissidents to the all holy mod.

Quote from: Fiasco;752619You wouldn't get that at the big purple, just thread bans and the stamping out of all dissidents to the all holy mod.

Yeah, sometimes, it's a shame...

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;752613What is the UI?

User Interface - thinking specifically of the posting box; the Smilies hang down into the text area and there seems no way to stop that.

Quote from: Fiasco;752619At least Benoist is now trying to back away from his outlandish claim that we should thank him for personally overthrowing 4E.

What I said is that, if it weren't for critics like me, which doesn't mean only me, or me and two guys, but really, "critics" in general, WotC would still be on course with 4e and pretend like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your attempts to shut people up for criticizing the starter set have the exact reverse effect as what you hope it does: it doesn't shut people up, it just annoys them and makes them want to be more vocal before turning their back and not looking back. That is exactly what the people who defended 4e accomplished before you. Some grand tent of reconciliation you are building for yourselves right here, 5e fans! People have opinions, like and dislike things, and you'll excuse me if I feel like I have a goddam right to give my opinion about what I think should or shouldn't be in a boxed set I'd offer people to introduce them to role playing games.

I'm not responsible for you or anyone else holding grudges over whatever the fuck you think I did to your cheerios at some point or other in the past. Likewise, if you think using "fuck" makes someone insane or outlandish on the internet, please turn off your computer immediately: you might end up with some brain damage staring at this screen for too long. And please, please! Don't ever go on YouTube. Your brain will explode. You have no idea.

Jesus H! Just buy the fucking starter and tape basic character generation options to it!!!! If you think your relatives and friends are COMPLETELY computer irrliterate that is? How hard is it to write up an array and 2-3 random methods? It's not. Focus on the fact that it's 12-13 dollars and fully supported online and with adventure paths up to 15th level.

If critics could achieve something, Uwe Boll'd not make films.

Quote from: S'mon;752594Aw man, that's harsh! Umbran is the main reason I barely read/post on ENW anymore.
Umbran and the goddamnawful UI.

Fuck ENworld, its weekly redesign, and Umbran's weekly bitchiness.

Quote from: JasperAK;752663Fuck ENworld, its weekly redesign, and Umbran's weekly bitchiness.

Damn right. Combined with their little point system? FUCK THAT!

Quote from: Marleycat;752659Jesus H! Just buy the fucking starter and tape basic character generation options to it!!!! If you think your relatives and friends are COMPLETELY computer irrliterate that is? How hard is it to write up an array and 2-3 random methods? It's not. Focus on the fact that it's 12-13 dollars and fully supported online and with adventure paths up to 15th level.

I don't think anyone would argue the value of what WOTC is offering here.

It is just that at a fundamental level some (myself included) believe that character generation should not be divorced from the play experience. Otherwise I don't see this starter set being much different than Wrath of Ashardelon or Legend of Drizzt.

I think the question comes down to what should be emphasized in a product solely designed to bring new blood into the hobby.

Quote from: Marleycat;752659Jesus H! Just buy the fucking starter and tape basic character generation options to it!!!! If you think your relatives and friends are COMPLETELY computer irrliterate that is? How hard is it to write up an array and 2-3 random methods? It's not. Focus on the fact that it's 12-13 dollars and fully supported online and with adventure paths up to 15th level.

From where I'm standing right now you guys are the ones who are pissing your pants because someone dared to criticize the starter set. Are you guys alright? Will you be okay? This isn't the end of the world, you know? It isn't for me, and neither does it have to be for anyone else, yourselves included.

Well, I guess Mearls was right.  5e is the unifying edition.  It's managed to unify the irrational 4e fans, irrational 3e fans, and irrational OSR grognards all in their hate for it.  I mean, some of things people are really getting worked up over and digging their trenches for is...well...odd to say the least.

Quote from: JasperAK;752667I don't think anyone would argue the value of what WOTC is offering here.

It is just that at a fundamental level some (myself included) believe that character generation should not be divorced from the play experience. Otherwise I don't see this starter set being much different than Wrath of Ashardelon or Legend of Drizzt.

I think the question comes down to what should be emphasized in a product solely designed to bring new blood into the hobby.

I understand your POV but even for myself (30+) if I have access to a PDF or SRD this isn't even an issue. And I only need it 1 time!