Quote from: Warthur;750828DMs gotta start somewhere. And if every kid who gets this box tries their hand at DMing...

But this is the same as every starter box previously released without character creation. I am not seeing the upside or added "DM focus".

Quote from: Skywalker;750830But this is the same as every starter box previously released without character creation.

Pundit seems convinced otherwise, I'm willing to wait and see what's coming down the pipeline which he can't tell us about.

Quote from: Warthur;750828DMs gotta start somewhere. And if every kid who gets this box tries their hand at DMing...

The best product in the 4e line was the Essentials DM's Kit box set.

While the DM's Kit and Monster Vault were both awesome, the 4e Red Box Starter Set was a piece of utter shit...

I'm all for having a Box set aimed at DMs; but not having one aimed at players, to bring new players into the hobby is unconscionably stupid...

You know all my DOS, etc. games? Especially those with pass-codes in the manual, manuals in extensions or word processors no longer supported, online patches, and/or finicky code barely stable on its own original OS? You know what sucks about all that? TIME.

Lynchpins to play suck. Chargen relegated to a finite extension or websites is just asking for obsolescence. It's been the bane of boardgames until they learned to get around critical singular parts. This is not hard, don't make the same mistake.

Quote from: Warthur;750833Pundit seems convinced otherwise, I'm willing to wait and see what's coming down the pipeline which he can't tell us about.

From what everyone is saying (Mearls, Pundit etc), we will be getting character creation by way of a separate free PDF or online character generator, which is exactly what we got under 3e and 4e. Trying to distinguish this release from them is simply obvious bias.

Not thrilled that generation isn't included in the box, but if it's a simple pdf download, then whatever.  Still keeping my amazon pre-order.  Having more of a dm focus in the box seems like it could be a good idea.  Heck, I'm surprise that WoTC doesn't have online workshops for would be DM's.  

The pre-gens will probably be like the ones in Dragonspear- a nameless fighter than you can skin (going from memory here).

It'd be awesome if they brought back Warduke and Peralay.

You know what I'd like to see in a starter box one day.  Mapping stickers.  One sheet for doing your dungeons and another for doing your own world.   Because the number one feature they should be pushing is that this is a game where you can create something of your own.

Quote from: David Johansen;750846You know what I'd like to see in a starter box one day.  Mapping stickers.  One sheet for doing your dungeons and another for doing your own world.   Because the number one feature they should be pushing is that this is a game where you can create something of your own.

Since every kid int eh world between teh ages of 8 and 14 spends about 50% of their time playing Minecraft they don't need map stickers they just need a bit of papper a pencil and some sample maps.

Think about this for a moment. The world is connected. The target audience for D&D is an online audience.
On that basis if you can log onto an iphone app to create your PC then all the players turn up to the DMs game the guy that bought the box set for $20 with their PC created then what's the big deal?

Quote from: Warthur;750813What I'd really like to see is a player-facing starter booklet containing character gen information which is distributed for free wherever the starter set is offered. That'd be ace.

Or they could include that booklet IN THE STARTER SET!

Quote from: jibbajibba;750851Since every kid int eh world between teh ages of 8 and 14 spends about 50% of their time playing Minecraft they don't need map stickers they just need a bit of papper a pencil and some sample maps.

Think about this for a moment. The world is connected. The target audience for D&D is an online audience.
On that basis if you can log onto an iphone app to create your PC then all the players turn up to the DMs game the guy that bought the box set for $20 with their PC created then what's the big deal?

So go play minecraft then.  The tactile hands-on nature of the game is something that should be emphasized not down played.  The sticker thing is just a gimmick but it's an inexpensive and fun gimmick.  Usually I'm advocating a couple hundred miniatures in a starter set.

Quote from: Dodger;750855Or they could include that booklet IN THE STARTER SET!

Inconceivable!

Quote from: Scott Anderson;750816I like rolling up dudes. Even in simple systems. Nothing beats rolling up some dudes.

This.

And I hated feeling like I had to have a computer handy to roll up a character in 4e or even level up. I'm not saying that is the case but I really don't want to even need a PDF or char gen program. That was my one hope, a complete game no computer anything.

sorry, whining like my toddler, I know

Quote from: David Johansen;750856So go play minecraft then.  The tactile hands-on nature of the game is something that should be emphasized not down played.  The sticker thing is just a gimmick but it's an inexpensive and fun gimmick.  Usually I'm advocating a couple hundred miniatures in a starter set.

You miss the point.
The point is that give kids an open resource they will fill it with their own imagination.

What you need is an app you can add to a scanner that will take a map drawn out on paper and scan and render it into a 3d computer world, or take their minecraft world and render it as a 2d map you can print.

when I was struggling with trying to build a city in Neverwinter Nights I was longing for an app that let me generate a base city through : Scan in this map: Generate City: Skin with Gothic Style. Or even better - Generate Random City XXX squares by YYY: Skin with Gothic Style:  then let me go in and tweak the outcome.  

When I win the lottery this is exactly the software my company will develop.
Oh and a way of providing an interface to the 3d computer world that is as flexible as my imagination and works at the same pace, add a room, render it, add some creatures, use the stats of a bugbear but make them octopodes with tencles, add some octopoidal artwork and statury, all in reall time.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;750870This.

And I hated feeling like I had to have a computer handy to roll up a character in 4e or even level up. I'm not saying that is the case but I really don't want to even need a PDF or char gen program. That was my one hope, a complete game no computer anything.

sorry, whining like my toddler, I know

But surely it will be on your phone.
The D&D character generator app is an obvious freee phone app.
You roll up your character on the bus on the way to the game.

Lets be honest you then spend a good chunk of your time just creating charcters dipping into the art archive that anyone can upload their own pictures to to fine a cool image and uploading your own artwork, photos of yourself dressed like an elf etc etc .

Well lets just say that if I were in charge of D&D there would be a character creator free iphone/android app.

Quote from: trechriron;750808I've been running games for over 30 years now and in my experience new players get confused with character generation. From a strictly "playing the game" POV, it's the boring part for a lot of newbies. The options pressure people. It feels like they are being forced to make significant decisions about a game they know nothing about. That is not a good introduction to the game. Even an hour spent on it is an hour sitting around not playing. It doesn't sell fun very effectively.

My experience with new players is similar.

In my last 4e campaign I offered my group of 5 newbies the option of using one of several straightforward pregens or going full detailed chargen. Only one took the detailed option. The others stuck with the pregens for the rest of the seven levels the campaign lasted.