I am going through some of the 1e and D&D modules for some adventures to use with 5e and or run as is. Right now I am reading the Village of Homlet and the first two "peasant cottages" have enough treasure to run a kingdom for a year in my campaign world...

The "Modest Farm" has a lead lined chest with:
+2 shield; +1 chain mail; +1 battle axe; 6 each 100 gp gems; 10 pp; 50 gp; and 100 sp.

I'm a miserly scrooge in every edition so that is right out the window. But  I started thinking, players probably "like stuff" (yeah, no duh..)

So excluding the magic items which I find to be "too much" for 5e and my DCC campaign, how would you deal with the "cash"? Would you inflate the prices on everything across the board? Do you make plate male cost 10k GP or is it easier to cut treasure down in all of these old modules?

Or am I completely off base and Ole Man Gygax was also the Alexander Hamilton of the fantasy world too? And I just don't see the economic genius at work here.

I have no idea what the numbers should be for 5th, but I love the fact that Gary was completely prepared just in case players went full-on murderhobo and started massacring peasants and pillaging their homes.  Keep on the Borderlands has the same thing going on, listing treasure for all the human inhabitants of the keep itself.  Which is baffling until you realize Gary was prepared and unfazed if players decided to take over the place, or ally with the Cave inhabitants and raid it.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1011115I am going through some of the 1e and D&D modules for some adventures to use with 5e and or run as is. Right now I am reading the Village of Homlet and the first two "peasant cottages" have enough treasure to run a kingdom for a year in my campaign world...

The "Modest Farm" has a lead lined chest with:
+2 shield; +1 chain mail; +1 battle axe; 6 each 100 gp gems; 10 pp; 50 gp; and 100 sp.

I'm a miserly scrooge in every edition so that is right out the window. But  I started thinking, players probably "like stuff" (yeah, no duh..)

So excluding the magic items which I find to be "too much" for 5e and my DCC campaign, how would you deal with the "cash"? Would you inflate the prices on everything across the board? Do you make plate male cost 10k GP or is it easier to cut treasure down in all of these old modules?

Or am I completely off base and Ole Man Gygax was also the Alexander Hamilton of the fantasy world too? And I just don't see the economic genius at work here.

That seems completely insane. Is the farmer a retired adventurer? I guess I might just say 50gp & 100sp. That's like having £6000 cash in the attic IMC, seems plenty to me. Maybe add a 100gp gem if it is a really wealthy farm, but then hardly 'modest'.

I don't mind the Gygaxian farmers having cash, but it feels silly they have *more* cash than the dungeon does! D&D ought to incentivise looting dungeons I would think, more than looting farms. Sure have wealthy noble villas with thousands of gp of stuff, but they should be in cities with guards, or in the countryside with *lots* of guards & fortifications.

That amount of cash would suit a knight's manor or fairly wealthy merchant IMC. The amount of magic is way way out for anyone but a legendary warlord type NPC.

Sounds like there would be a retired adventurer living there. Either make the peasant a lvl 6 fighter type (nasty surprise for raiders or PCs going rampant) or just divide by 10 and toss the gear. Gem might be uncut, and worth 100gp when properly finished?

Well, bear in mind the "Modest Farmhouse" you are referring to is the home of a retired adventurer who has one son who is currently an adventurer and 10th level Ranger and another other brother is also an adventurer who happens to bean agent for the Viscount of the area.

So...not a great example and you seem to have deliberately ignored all that detail just say "Hrr, hrr, Gary Gygax was dumb, hurr hurr"

But with that said, no, D&D is not an economic simulation. The whole money system seems to more or less be inspired by England of the Victorian era, where you have gold coins (sovereigns) worth a pound and were worth 20 silver shillings

Quote from: JeremyR;1011139Well, bear in mind the "Modest Farmhouse" you are referring to is the home of a retired adventurer who has one son who is currently an adventurer and 10th level Ranger and another other brother is also an adventurer who happens to bean agent for the Viscount of the area.

10th Level is Ranger Lord I think? So really high level on Gygax's own demographics, an Aragorn type.

Lets see.
The Farmer is a retired Fighter, Level 4 with some non magical gear and some treasure stashed.
Their son is level 4 Ranger and the one with the +1 armour and  axe and +2 shield. And about 600gp in gems + some other stuff. and carries on him a +2 dagger.

The rest of the houses have some coin and usually not much else unless they are more than villagers.

Actually makes sense considering they are relatively close to the temple and at some point theres likely been an influx of gold and items.

You either use the wealth for clever players to clue in to his family connections to power (what % of players REALLY discover how much wealth "Modest Farm" has anyway?) or cut it all back by 90%.

I'd do the former considering how unlikely PC's really are to discover it & how the one off chance they did would fill them with idea of a world full of secrets & checking every chimney space.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1011115I am going through some of the 1e and D&D modules for some adventures to use with 5e and or run as is. Right now I am reading the Village of Homlet and the first two "peasant cottages" have enough treasure to run a kingdom for a year in my campaign world...

The "Modest Farm" has a lead lined chest with:
+2 shield; +1 chain mail; +1 battle axe; 6 each 100 gp gems; 10 pp; 50 gp; and 100 sp.

I'm a miserly scrooge in every edition so that is right out the window. But  I started thinking, players probably "like stuff" (yeah, no duh..)

So excluding the magic items which I find to be "too much" for 5e and my DCC campaign, how would you deal with the "cash"? Would you inflate the prices on everything across the board? Do you make plate male cost 10k GP or is it easier to cut treasure down in all of these old modules?

Or am I completely off base and Ole Man Gygax was also the Alexander Hamilton of the fantasy world too? And I just don't see the economic genius at work here.

All that wealth in a peasant cottage is just lame and utterly absurd. Unless the peasants are in fact high level thieves who have had not the time to hide their latest theft more carefully. Or maybe this is an illusion to give to would-be robbers, in hope they would take it and leave the place without harming anyone. Now, the real treasure would merely be a trinket worth 2d4 gp, a purse with 17 sp, and another bigger one with 64 cp. Economics in official D&D are just plain idiocy IMO.

Mind you, you CAN always take a pen, strike through the bits you think are absurd, write in the numbers that seem good to you, and move on ...

If, by some stroke of luck, your party's Level 1 Thief manages to sneak into Elmo's barn and gank his treasure, the goods retrieved should tip you off to the fact that whomever you just robbed is not just some common Normal Man tilling the fields. Otis, of course, will come kick party's ass if they managed to kill Elmo before robbing him.

I suggest reading the whole adventure before changing it.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1011115I am going through some of the 1e and D&D modules for some adventures to use with 5e and or run as is. Right now I am reading the Village of Homlet and the first two "peasant cottages" have enough treasure to run a kingdom for a year in my campaign world...

The "Modest Farm" has a lead lined chest with:
+2 shield; +1 chain mail; +1 battle axe; 6 each 100 gp gems; 10 pp; 50 gp; and 100 sp.

I'm a miserly scrooge in every edition so that is right out the window. But  I started thinking, players probably "like stuff" (yeah, no duh..)

So excluding the magic items which I find to be "too much" for 5e and my DCC campaign, how would you deal with the "cash"? Would you inflate the prices on everything across the board? Do you make plate male cost 10k GP or is it easier to cut treasure down in all of these old modules?

Or am I completely off base and Ole Man Gygax was also the Alexander Hamilton of the fantasy world too? And I just don't see the economic genius at work here.

First and foremost, each edition has had a different relationship to magic items, their prevalence, and extraneous factors (for instance, +1 chain and +1 battle axe are rather substandard magic items, much like +1 chain would be in 5e). Same with gold. Take a look at the 1e xp charts--most of that xp is going to be acquired as gold piece value of treasure acquired (the old gp=xp). So your party of four (with level up thresholds between 1200 and 2500) is going to need to acquire 5000-10,000 gp before they hit 2nd level. That's significantly different from 5e where gp is mostly a determination of how many healing potions you get to use or when you get full plate (at least until you are the level where you start thinking about buying keeps or merchant ships or whatever).

So yes, dividing the sitting treasure by a set number (be it 2, 5, or 10) is a reasonable way of altering those numbers to make them work for you. But also, remember that gp=xp thing going on in Gygax penned (or helmed, basically all pre-2e TSR) editions when looking for a method to the madness.

Now, there is a side issue of the 755 gp equivalents and several magic items sitting on a relatively undefended farm. This does seem to violate the 'with significant treasure is supposed to be significant guardian/challenge' concept one might expect. However, this is really setting up a decision-point for the adventurers. The author is placing a plot hook here. This farm is relatively unguarded, but several 4th-10th level NPCs have a vested interest in it. What do you want to do? As Dave R. suggest, Gary is totally prepared for you to go straight up murderhobo (or burglerhobo) if you want, which gives you an early gp/xp boost, but also adds a complication/enemy. Or, if you prefer, you could beg/plead/negotiate for use of those items (or the allies tied to them). The choice is yours.

Quote from: JeremyR;1011139Well, bear in mind the "Modest Farmhouse" you are referring to is the home of a retired adventurer who has one son who is currently an adventurer and 10th level Ranger and another other brother is also an adventurer who happens to bean agent for the Viscount of the area.

Very much so. This isn't 'farmhouse', it is 'adventurer's retirement location.' It isn't well guarded based upon the creature listed to be on the farm at the time, but the idea of obtaining the treasure from the farm certainly opens up the adventure to significantly different challenges than choosing not to.

QuoteSo...not a great example and you seem to have deliberately ignored all that detail just say "Hrr, hrr, Gary Gygax was dumb, hurr hurr"

OTOH, the OP actively said the equivalent, 'am I off base, and there's a method to the madness I'm just not seeing?' so I think you're trying a little too hard to make this into a 'OP is picking on Gary' scenario.

Quote from: Ravenswing;1011153Mind you, you CAN always take a pen, strike through the bits you think are absurd, write in the numbers that seem good to you, and move on ...

How dare you assert that the ref is allowed to run his own game as he sees fit, sir!

Quote from: Dave R;1011128I have no idea what the numbers should be for 5th, but I love the fact that Gary was completely prepared just in case players went full-on murderhobo and started massacring peasants and pillaging their homes.  Keep on the Borderlands has the same thing going on, listing treasure for all the human inhabitants of the keep itself.  Which is baffling until you realize Gary was prepared and unfazed if players decided to take over the place, or ally with the Cave inhabitants and raid it.

Absolutely.. Thieves in the old days were very likely to be thieves in the common sense of the word instead of the assassins and spies they are portrayed to be in current editions.  It is one of the things I love about the old modules that assumed the players would take the full spectrum of the alignment scale and it was up to the DM to deal with it. It seems later editions try to at least steer the players into the "good" side of the alignment spectrum.

Quote from: JeremyR;1011139Well, bear in mind the "Modest Farmhouse" you are referring to is the home of a retired adventurer who has one son who is currently an adventurer and 10th level Ranger and another other brother is also an adventurer who happens to bean agent for the Viscount of the area.

So...not a great example and you seem to have deliberately ignored all that detail just say "Hrr, hrr, Gary Gygax was dumb, hurr hurr"

But with that said, no, D&D is not an economic simulation. The whole money system seems to more or less be inspired by England of the Victorian era, where you have gold coins (sovereigns) worth a pound and were worth 20 silver shillings

I should be so offended if someone compares me to the dude on the $10 bill. Did you really read that as a slight toward Gygax? I meant no offense sir and you missed the point. The point is, is it better to have lots of economic stuff available for the players to possibly pilfer because players enjoy the chance to acquire more wealth or dial it back to fit a more realistic economy? And if you leave it in, do you adjust the other economics accordingly?