...What would be your personal choice? And why? Like the ideas? Are the mechanics crunchy/light enough to suit your GM style? Force of habit?
Me, if I don't feel like using Classic Traveller, I'm thinking it'd be a dead tie between StarCluster 2 and Nebuleon. I'd also have to give Spacemaster a good look...
Well, if I'm running an epic space campaign that probably means I'm running Star Wars, and if I'm running Star Wars then I'd be using Star Wars d20. I don't even own the latest version of the book, so I suppose I would have to buy it. I suppose my reasons are a combination of brand recognition and good experiences with the previous edition.
I'd like to use Traveller d20, but modified using d20 Modern & Future. T20 came out before d20 Modern and Future, and could benefit from such a revamp.
Well, given a day to prep, the sf rpg I wrote that inspired the redesign on "among the beautiful creatures". Because it's fast and dirty and done enough to go forward.
Given a week, Galaxies in Shadow.
But if I had to go right now, Space Master Privateers. Which is a great deal of fun and I have a method that makes characters in 15 minutes without a computer.
Quote from: David JohansenBut if I had to go right now, Space Master Privateers. Which is a great deal of fun and I have a method that makes characters in 15 minutes without a computer.
I'm always amazed that game doesn't get more love. Wonder why that is?
(http://www.westendgames.com/covers/weg51012s.jpg)
(http://www.rpgnow.com/products/product_7122.jpg)
My ideal balance of light and crunchy; adaptable; fast; familiar.
Traveller, either LBB or GURPS.
Define "epic".
I'm thinking that D20 mod and future is gonna be my choice. But it is as usual a fortuitous coincidence that I thinking of running a space game as the next campaign, so I'm interested in what folks are thinking.
Quote from: Zachary The FirstI'm always amazed that game doesn't get more love. Wonder why that is?
Well, first off, it straddled ICE's collapse. They reformatted it and made a mess in doing so, then went bankrupt for over a year. Then they finally got the vehicle book out and misprinted several vital tables. Not that I'm thrilled with some of the design decisions behind the right set of tables either.
Also, the fans really hated the setting. Personally the setting's not bad, it's just not what people wanted. I think if they'd gone with an anime look the animal people thing would have played better.
I think the rationale for animal people is sound. They're the sf equivilant of elves, dwarves, and orks. However I do feel that the racial builds were far too specific to certain carreers. It's not that I mind Oorts being smarter, but being absolutely specialized as scientists? Not so much. Though, an Oort thief might be a pretty scary character.
I like D6 Space a lot, but we recently started a campaign where we were all in the mood for really epic sci-fi without bogging down in weapon stats and ship speeds, and we decided to go for HeroQuest! It's worked very well for us so far. Our third episode is a week from Monday.
If I were to start an "epic" space campaign right now. I think I would use either D6 or Heros Unlimited. I like the space material for HU, and I know the material system like the back of my hand. So while fairly crunchy I can keep it fast moving.
I would choose between StarCluster, Cold Space/FTL Now, Nebuleon, and Hard Nova ][, depending on the style of campaign I wanted to run and/or the setting I wanted to run it in. I run a lot of SF.
-clash
...I'd be remiss if I didn't include a strong Lensman influence.
Well, everyone knows it'd be d20. Though d20 would do okay for lensman.
i'd use a combination of CoC/BRP homebrew & traveller (CT/MT/T4) stuff. maybe throw in some star frontiers elements as well.
oh, fuck it. it's "epic," right? let's live high on the hog and add 'mechs, 40K stuff, and living ships like the pentapods of 2300 AD and moya of "farscape" fame.
but i'd use that homebrew for mechanics.
I would run Star*Drive, either using its native Alternity rules set, or converting it to True20.
Both systems have plenty of detail in them, but True20 is certainly the lighter of the two.
Quote from: David JohansenWell, given a day to prep, the sf rpg I wrote that inspired the redesign on "among the beautiful creatures". Because it's fast and dirty and done enough to go forward.
Given a week, Galaxies in Shadow.
But if I had to go right now, Space Master Privateers. Which is a great deal of fun and I have a method that makes characters in 15 minutes without a computer.
I'd definitely like to hear your method, I was going to run a SM campaign once but got tired of trying to make characters given the fact that it was extremely hard to determine skill costs given the race/class factors.
In fact I'd say character creation made the rules system look easy by comparision.
The system would be gurps for me. As to setting maybe a traveller derivitive I did that was set in a paralell traveller universe I came up with involving the fall of the 3I and the struggle to survive when the K'Kree went on a campaign to rid the universe of G'naak....
Classic Traveller is the first thing that comes to mind, but I wouldn't rule out Savage Worlds. The skirmish and mass battles in Savage Worlds rules are helpful for larger actions. I've recently been thinking of doing something RPG-like and sweeping in scope with the 1st edition Warhammer 40K rulebook.
I'd curse my lack of Wild Talents and grab FATE. Maybe Tri-Stat. Depends on the implications of "epic".
Quote from: Dominus NoxI'd definitely like to hear your method, I was going to run a SM campaign once but got tired of trying to make characters given the fact that it was extremely hard to determine skill costs given the race/class factors.
In fact I'd say character creation made the rules system look easy by comparision.
Ah, I thought that was you. Yeah, it took me about a year longer to get to it than expected.
It was in the Guild Companion last month, I call it the Spacemaster Accelerator. I think they screwed up the link to the custom character sheets though, so if it gives you any trouble, let me know and I'll email them to you.
I was thinking about doing an Accelerator for Rolemaster, but honestly there didn't seem to be much interest.
fusion of the LBB's, True20 and T20, and my own setting- which would probably be something similar to the one I mentioned in the mars rpg thread.
I'd like to pimp Burning Empires.
http://www.burningempires.com/
It's probably overcomplicated, and I'm fairly certain that the book will work best as a reference book for someone who already knows how to play it, but damn if it doesn't hold out the chance of some cool ass epic sci-fi, filled with space battles and power plays and ancient empires and power armour and all that good stuff.
And the comics are wicked cool too.
If I had to run a campaign Now it would be HeroQuest Light though.
Depends on the kind of "epic" game I want to run. Right now, I'm interested in running somthing like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadstar , so I'll probably use Star Wars d6 or Star Frontiers or ....
For stuff other than space opera I'd use Cold Space.
Regards,
David R
Well holy shit! I take it all back. It would be Traveller!
http://www.genreconnections.com/shop/home.php?cat=288
1:7200 scale, eh? now to figure out the relative sizes of (TOS) enterprise and a star destroyer and put 'em all together, just to be wacky :raise:
those are pretty sweet, tho :D
I intend to be running a sf game with either the rules from Qin, WotG or, ideally, my own rules (which is my ultimate goal). It's based on the ideas you can read from the link in my sig. Go me! :D
Quote from: beeber1:7200 scale, eh? now to figure out the relative sizes of (TOS) enterprise and a star destroyer and put 'em all together, just to be wacky :raise:
those are pretty sweet, tho :D
They probably have already worked that out at the Starship Combat News forums...
http://www.star-ranger.com/forum/
I am positively craving a Doctor Who game . . .
Quote from: J ArcaneI am positively craving a Doctor Who game . . .
Cool, J, but not exactly an "epic space campaign," is it?
:D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceCool, J, but not exactly an "epic space campaign," is it?
:D
-clash
Dude, the Doctor just got done fighting a war that nearly wiped two whole species from the whole of time.
And have you seen the Battle of Canary Wharf?
Who can be plenty epic. ;)
and the whole of time and space makes a REALLY big canvas . . .
I'd use d20 modern or Alternity, or maybe Silhouette in a homebrew setting. I can whip up that "epic space adventure setting" stuff in no time flat.
Quote from: J ArcaneDude, the Doctor just got done fighting a war that nearly wiped two whole species from the whole of time.
And have you seen the Battle of Canary Wharf?
Who can be plenty epic. ;)
and the whole of time and space makes a REALLY big canvas . . .
Well, the image conjured up by "epic space campaign" has more starships and less telephone booths - at least in my mind... :D
-clash
Hey! What's our working definition of "epic science fiction", here, anyhoo?
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Hey! What's our working definition of "epic science fiction", here, anyhoo?
to me? Grand adventures, grand stakes, earthshaking consequences, amazing characters.
Quote from: J Arcaneto me? Grand adventures, grand stakes, earthshaking consequences, amazing characters.
That's pretty much mine as well, but it's a subjective term for this exercise. :)
Quote from: flyingmiceWell, the image conjured up by "epic space campaign" has more starships and less telephone booths - at least in my mind... :D
-clash
Dr. Who has both. There are many, many epsiodes that fall into the epic category.
What:
I've been reading Alastair Reynolds' Revalation Space books. I'm picturing something somewhere between his books and Hamilton's books. Hardish, detailed world building, cyber/bioware.
How:
Up in the air. HERO would give me all the tools I need, but I'd need to make stuff up and do lots of hand-holding. More likely, I'd cobble something together with T20, D20 Modern/Future, and maybe dipping until Arsenal and Factory for bio/cyberwear, and using a few traveller books for world building.
Quote from: AosDr. Who has both. There are many, many epsiodes that fall into the epic category.
Ah! Then I haven't seen enough Dr, Who, obviously! Apologies!
-clash
This is the internetzzz111, you can't apologize, you'll ruin the fun!
Quote from: AosThis is the internetzzz111, you can't apologize, you'll ruin the fun!
But I was wrong! I'd just never seen a Dr. Who episode set on a space ship, and assumed none were! That was a dumb mistake!
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceBut I was wrong! I'd just never seen a Dr. Who episode set on a space ship, and assumed none were! That was a dumb mistake!
-clash
Wow, if you can handle cheezy sfx, low production values, and poorly saturated video, you've got a lot of really cool TV to catch up on.
The old SF encyclopedia had about the best description of Dr. Who, it went something like this, "At its best it is spellbinding, and at worsts it is just silly."
Quote from: AosWow, if you can handle cheezy sfx, low production values, and poorly saturated video, you've got a lot of really cool TV to catch up on.
The old SF encyclopedia had about the best description of Dr. Who, it went something like this, "At its best it is spellbinding, and at worsts it is just silly."
Sounds good. I'll have to check it out. I've seen some Dr. Who. but not a lot, and not many eps in a row.
Thanks!
-clash
GURPS Travller campaign setting.
Sword Worlds Revolt.
QM
The one currently on the back burner is my own setting. No FTL, Solar System pretty thoroughly colonized (Mars, Luna, Jovian and to a much lesser degree Saturnian satellites, Mercury, various asteroids, Venus to a very limited degree, hundreds of inhabited orbital colonies (usually O'Neill-style). Strongly influenced by Kim Stanley Robinson, Bruce Sterling, GURPS Terradyne, and Poltergeist: The Legacy. Uses the CORPS mechanics, although if I start it up again, I may switch over to EABA.
Either GURPS: TRAVELLER or GURPS : SPACE .
Once used my own setting with GURPS:SPACE that had this FTL drive that was initiated by psionic pilots in a special chair. We called it the "PsyperDrive" system. I was using the maps from the first two Space Atlases.
- Ed C.
I'd use D20 Future, (alternates being True20 or Savage Worlds).
I'm thinking about how I'd build it out... Maybe this is another thread.
First edition Star Wars d6 version or LBB Traveller, simple and fun all the way baby.
Barring my own setting and system, probably Star Frontiers or Star Wars d6. For epic, I find Star Frontiers has a very close match.
Bill
Does the Starfire series by David Weber and Steve White count as Epic?
1. Insurrection
2. Crusade
3. In Death Ground
4. The Shiva Option
5. Exodus
Always liked the Starfire game and think that the book series would be a good setting for a game.
Of course I would be using Savage Worlds as the rule system.
=
Quote from: GreentongueDoes the Starfire series by David Weber and Steve White count as Epic?
Well, to be consistent to the novels, all PCs/focus characters would have short lifespans, destined to end in an "eye-tearing ball of flame". :keke:
Quote from: Caesar SlaadWell, to be consistent to the novels, all PCs/focus characters would have short lifespans, destined to end in an "eye-tearing ball of flame". :keke:
That is True.
However, there has to be things going on around the edges of the main plot. That is where I was thinking the Game would take place. While the main history is determined, there are a lot of other possibilities in the setting in my opinion.
The backdrop of war should provide for a lot of exciting things to happen to or around the players. They would be living during "Interesting Times".
Plus there is a whole game system for developing your own consistant setting.
=
It was pointed out to me that Victory by Any Means (http://www.vbamgames.com/) may be a better way to develop your own background by running a parallel game.
=
Probably Tri-Stat Tenchi Muyo!. I doubt it'd be a popular choice here, but I enjoyed the series, and if I was gonna do it right now, then I've got the mechanics and world available to me, and the system is enjoyable to me.
Quote from: Zachary The First...What would be your personal choice? And why? Like the ideas? Are the mechanics crunchy/light enough to suit your GM style? Force of habit?
Depending on how hard the SF has to be for this exercise, I'd probably use
Fading Suns. 'Cause it's wicked cool, and I haven't had a chance to run it for a good long while. The mechanics are a bit...wonky (I have the Victory Point system, not the d20 version), but workable.
I'm thinking
StarCraft meets
Dune. (Which actually kinda describes
Fading Suns in the first place.)
Quote from: ErstwhileDepending on how hard the SF has to be for this exercise, I'd probably use Fading Suns. 'Cause it's wicked cool, and I haven't had a chance to run it for a good long while. The mechanics are a bit...wonky (I have the Victory Point system, not the d20 version), but workable.
The setting rocks on toast. I've never been terribly happy with any version of the system, but the setting, oh my... It's gold.
Quote from: AnemoneThe setting rocks on toast. I've never been terribly happy with any version of the system, but the setting, oh my... It's gold.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I was replaying
StarCraft t'other day and realized just how much like FS it was - aliens with advanced force field tech? Check. Hive-mind ravenous aliens? Check. Space marines and battleships? Check. Psychics? Check.
Add in intersolar feudalism and the Church, mix well, and...
Quote from: Zachary The First...What would be your personal choice?
I assume that you mean "choice of system" and, in that case, I'd probably use a modified version of Space & Steel or Hero's Banner (depending upon what the scope/goals of the game were). The former isn't a spectaculr system, but it is simple and does get "space opera" done -- the latter would be better suited to epic space opera in the vein of Icelandic legends.
In times past, I would almost certainly have gone with GURPS and a homebrewed setting, probably either a classic free-trader style campaign or post-galactic apocalypse (one of the reasons I count myself among those few fans of T:TNE). But these days, I must admit I'd be tempted to go with Spycraft 2.0, and go with a farscape-style down-the-rabbit-hole game, with the PCs being woken from suspended animation in a sleeper-ship sent out from Earth in say 2150 or thereabouts which went off course, and they now find themselves in a strange galaxy where humans have been starfaring and mixing it up with other alien races for centuries, if not millennia. Sole enlightened democrats in a setting filled with theocratic and despotic regimes, warmongering and slavery. It could be done in GURPS as well, and I might end up going that way, but these days I love the niche protection and glorious coolness of Spycraft too much.
Quote from: Zachary The First...What would be your personal choice? And why? Like the ideas? Are the mechanics crunchy/light enough to suit your GM style? Force of habit?
Me, if I don't feel like using Classic Traveller, I'm thinking it'd be a dead tie between StarCluster 2 and Nebuleon. I'd also have to give Spacemaster a good look...
StarCluster 2 all the way. It's solid, well supported, and easy to get! And I've played epic space games in it so I know it works :)
-Marco
For me, and it might be obvious, Nebuleon.
Tons of organizations, groups, governments. The core book only covers a small section of space, there is a lot of unexplored space.
Anything from straight out military to politcal campaigns work great.
Quote from: MarcoStarCluster 2 all the way. It's solid, well supported, and easy to get! And I've played epic space games in it so I know it works :)
Who are you kidding. You'd use Jags :D
Quote from: Zachary The First...What would be your personal choice? And why? Like the ideas? Are the mechanics crunchy/light enough to suit your GM style? Force of habit?
Me, if I don't feel like using Classic Traveller, I'm thinking it'd be a dead tie between StarCluster 2 and Nebuleon. I'd also have to give Spacemaster a good look...
Well for Epic, I can't think of anything better than Star Wars rpg (west end, d6 version), relativly rules lite, fast in play (most of the time, lol)
does what it needs to do, (except lightsaber fights, but can easly be fixed)
well
never saw classic Traveller (or any other Traveller for that matter) as Epic, to me it fits along side low level and personal settings such as Serenity etc,
But for non epic (well at least in the non ott sense of the word) I'd always go for Star Trek, (either FASA, or Decipher, Last unicorn was too flawed)
I tend to use Cold Space, Hard Nova, or my own house-system for sci-fi games. I don't distinguish between epic and non-epic games. What happens, happens.
My definition of epic differs from the majority. Seeing as the PCs are pretty much the centre of the gaming universe, anything that directly affects them in a major way is epic. If the PCs disappear, the gaming universe around them collapses too. A whole universe gone in a flash! That's epic!
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeMy definition of epic differs from the majority. Seeing as the PCs are pretty much the centre of the gaming universe, anything that directly affects them in a major way is epic. If the PCs disappear, the gaming universe around them collapses too. A whole universe gone in a flash! That's epic!
This a damn good definition of "epic" :D
Regards,
David R
For sheer size alone, gimmie GURPS Trav (and all the trimmings!), my oh-so-many MegaTraveller supplements for ideas, and chuck those poor players in a imploding Imperium.
Nice.
Quote from: Jeffrey StraszheimWho are you kidding. You'd use Jags :D
JAGS Space ain't out yet. JAGS
StarCluster tho might be interesting!
-Marco
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeI tend to use Cold Space, Hard Nova, or my own house-system for sci-fi games. I don't distinguish between epic and non-epic games. What happens, happens.
My definition of epic differs from the majority. Seeing as the PCs are pretty much the centre of the gaming universe, anything that directly affects them in a major way is epic. If the PCs disappear, the gaming universe around them collapses too. A whole universe gone in a flash! That's epic!
But at the end of the day thats still more of a personal tale, it doesn't have the broader scope as in the "war and peace" sense of what epic is,
it sounds more greek myth saga with your version of epic
Quote from: MarcoJAGS Space ain't out yet. JAGS StarCluster tho might be interesting!
-Marco
Dang right it would be! :D
-clash
Quote from: pathfinderapBut at the end of the day thats still more of a personal tale, it doesn't have the broader scope as in the "war and peace" sense of what epic is,
it sounds more greek myth saga with your version of epic
Whether the PCs are saving the galaxy or saving the day, is not important. If we are using "War and Peace" as our definition, then I need only place the PCs in a long and tawdry tale. That sounds like a campaign to me.
Imagine War and Peace without any characters, if it was only a tale told in the broadest sense. It wouldn't be much of a tale, would it?
The point is, (in my opinion) characters drive the plot, or, at least, they should.
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeWhether the PCs are saving the galaxy or saving the day, is not important. If we are using "War and Peace" as our definition, then I need only place the PCs in a long and tawdry tale. That sounds like a campaign to me.
Imagine War and Peace without any characters, if it was only a tale told in the broadest sense. It wouldn't be much of a tale, would it?
The point is, (in my opinion) characters drive the plot, or, at least, they should.
And Johnny nails it to the cathedral door! :D
-clash
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeWhether the PCs are saving the galaxy or saving the day, is not important. If we are using "War and Peace" as our definition, then I need only place the PCs in a long and tawdry tale. That sounds like a campaign to me.
Imagine War and Peace without any characters, if it was only a tale told in the broadest sense. It wouldn't be much of a tale, would it?
The point is, (in my opinion) characters drive the plot, or, at least, they should.
But thats the case with most RPG's, even the non epic ones, True?
Quote from: pathfinderapBut thats the case with most RPG's, even the non epic ones, True?
Yes, you're correct.:)
As far as I'm concerned, an RPG game becomes an epic when you manage to squeeze a campaign out of it. That's pretty damn epic, in my book. A one-shot isn't epic, it's a night of giggles.
Another term that annoys me is, "space opera". I've
never ended a campaign with some great, fat woman screeching to let us know we've reached the finish line. But maybe, that's for another thread . . . ;)
With Starwars Saga coming out, I might be tempted to try that rules set with a different setting.
Possibly either the Nebulon, Traveller or Star*Drive settings.
Quote from: MarcoJAGS Space ain't out yet. JAGS StarCluster tho might be interesting!
What? And replace one crunchy old-school system with another? Wouldn't you rather design the new StarCluster in the Vineyard? Seriously man!
(Warning: the content of this post is not serious.)
P.S. On a related note, I just got Cold Space. I rather like the setting.
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeYes, you're correct.:)
As far as I'm concerned, an RPG game becomes an epic when you manage to squeeze a campaign out of it. That's pretty damn epic, in my book. A one-shot isn't epic, it's a night of giggles.
I don't know, I ran a one shot, (Traveller) two player, one of them ran a group of Marines protecting an ancient site (advanced tech, transporters) and the other player ran a group of Mercenaries hired to take out or steal the tech, they damaged the tech in a fire fight, and the Mercenaries used it in a bid to escape, the Marines followed and both parties ended up in 1980"s new york, they fought each other across the city, the police got involed, then later the army, each time both parties losing members of each team,
it raged, both teams trying to kill each other, both trying to aviod the police and army, the big final battle was a stalemate situation broken by an all out battle on Liberty Island, doing massive damage to the statue of liberty,
all but two died (from something like 48)
It was a non stop rollercoaster ride,
All by the seat of my pants, I was just a kid
They thought it was epic,
Quote from: pathfinderapI don't know, I ran a one shot, (Traveller) two player, one of them ran a group of Marines protecting an ancient site (advanced tech, transporters) and the other player ran a group of Mercenaries hired to take out or steal the tech, they damaged the tech in a fire fight, and the Mercenaries used it in a bid to escape, the Marines followed and both parties ended up in 1980"s new york, they fought each other across the city, the police got involed, then later the army, each time both parties losing members of each team,
it raged, both teams trying to kill each other, both trying to aviod the police and army, the big final battle was a stalemate situation broken by an all out battle on Liberty Island, doing massive damage to the statue of liberty,
all but two died (from something like 48)
It was a non stop rollercoaster ride,
All by the seat of my pants, I was just a kid
They thought it was epic,
Yeah, that sounds pretty damn epic to me and it must have been loads of fun!:D
Quote from: MarcoJAGS StarCluster tho might be interesting!
-Marco
This is a
must! Get to work.:)
Quote from: JohnnyWannabeYeah, that sounds pretty damn epic to me and it must have been loads of fun!:D
It was, full on, no holds bared, all out non stop adventure,
Never worked so hard GM'ing a game ever, lol
Quote from: Jeffrey StraszheimWhat? And replace one crunchy old-school system with another? Wouldn't you rather design the new StarCluster in the Vineyard? Seriously man!
(Warning: the content of this post is not serious.)
P.S. On a related note, I just got Cold Space. I rather like the setting.
I just got the GM advice in JAGS Revised (in posted essay form) described as "veering into Nar" on StoryGames :eek:
Maybe Hyenas in the StarCluster ain't so far off ...
-Marco
[ Also note: if System did Matter then, yes, replacing a crunchy old-school system with another
would make a difference--but since System Only Matters in GNS terms, if both are Sim then, you're right: there'd be no reason! What was I thinking ;) -- NOTE: I know Jeff and we argue GNS all the time. This is an extension of that. ]
If no one else will say it, I will.
I defend the Honor of Fading Suns against any man, woman or RPG who dare claim it does not do Epic Space Gaming better than any other!
The Gauntlet has been thrown!
That said, I rather like some of the other stuff said here too. Burning Empires, I'll second with the Caveat that I'd have to toss out scripted combat and put in good space battles somehow. It needs work for me to truely trust it (sorry, Luke, I know you love your scripted whatsists, but that shit makes me feel like a retarded stepchild. Wow, eight whole options in a fight. Loverly.) Gurps is cool, but I don't think it's realy 'epic'. Hard, soitanly. Epic... not so much. Ditto traveller. And if Alternities tech levels didn't make my eyes bleed from the pain, i could almost get behind it or D20 Future, which shamelessly stole every last bit of that terrible shit like it was GOLD.
EDIT:::: damn, didn't notice the second page before I posted. Erstwhile, I got your back.. that's it, yeah...
Fading Suns didn't work for me; how can you have a culture (well ok the nobility as opposed to the proles) so dependent on technology while at the same time making it a sin to use? I couldn't reconcile the two and found it kinda fell flat for me, plus the background was a chore to read. I would have been looking forward to a 40K rpg but for that facts: a) the setting is probably too harsh! b) its not coming out till next year (and i emailed them hoping to get in on the playtest action - bastards!) and c) the multibook format is spectacularly stupid.
But i don't see anything else that does this sort of thing. The Dune RPG was stillborn (though probably for the best - I check for traps then turn into a worm).
Quote from: MarcoI just got the GM advice in JAGS Revised (in posted essay form) described as "veering into Nar" on StoryGames :eek:
Maybe Hyenas in the StarCluster ain't so far off ...
-Marco
Heck, I've been living with Hyenas in my StarCluster for four years now! :D
-clash
Quote from: signoftheserpentFading Suns didn't work for me; how can you have a culture (well ok the nobility as opposed to the proles) so dependent on technology while at the same time making it a sin to use? I couldn't reconcile the two and found it kinda fell flat for me, plus the background was a chore to read. I would have been looking forward to a 40K rpg but for that facts: a) the setting is probably too harsh! b) its not coming out till next year (and i emailed them hoping to get in on the playtest action - bastards!) and c) the multibook format is spectacularly stupid.
But i don't see anything else that does this sort of thing. The Dune RPG was stillborn (though probably for the best - I check for traps then turn into a worm).
I had Fading Suns, but gave it away (and that person later gave it away)
I found it dull and depressing, I can see the Dune thing, but if thats what I wanted I'd go play Dune, baring that I don't see the draw
If I was a smarter intarweb geek and at all organized I'd have a file of quotes that other people have used to pull out for this argument. Instead I use my memory.
Fading Suns is admittedly a kitchen sink derivative setting. There is dune, there is 40k. There is the weird fuedal setting technology issue thing.
The thing of it is: It works, like a champ, like a monster. It's a kitchen sink that takes all that other stuff (lightsabers!!!!) and makes it all work together without feeling kludged together. It OWNS all of it's source material, is internally and externally coherent. Nobles use technology, but mostly don't know how it works. They get indulgences from the church, which is a political move because the church needs the nobles and the nobles need the church. The third leg is the guilds, the technologist, who have power because they DO know how all that crap works, and nobody wants to give it all up.
Is the back story dull to read? I don't know, i didn't find it so. But you don't need to remember every detail. I could sum up the majority of the 'history' in a few lines, all anyone needs to really run the game, much less play in it.
You say Dune is your dream Epic Space setting, Fading Suns does Dune, right down to Prana Bindu and jump ships (sort of... Jump gates) and precognition and sheild fighting. You say Star Wars is your Epic Space, I've got your lightsabers and your telekinetic mystics. You say 40k is your Epic Space? I've got your Brother Battle in power armor vs. buglike aliens, right along side Imperial Legions fighting a doomed battle and a larger than life Emperor guiding mankind to a brighter future, and an oppressive theocractic church burning heretics in the streets. You say you Epic Space involves Massive Fleet battles? Got 'em. Pirates and space vikings? Got 'em. Massive four armed wookie aliens? Got 'em. Blood sucking bug me? Got 'em. Precursor aliens and wierd ancient artifacts that are beyond modern science? Got 'em.
Not saying its necessarily for everyone, but Epic? Got it in spades and then some. It does Epic so hard your grandchildren feel it RIght Now!
Quote from: SpikeIf I was a smarter intarweb geek and at all organized I'd have a file of quotes that other people have used to pull out for this argument. Instead I use my memory.
Fading Suns is admittedly a kitchen sink derivative setting. There is dune, there is 40k. There is the weird fuedal setting technology issue thing.
The thing of it is: It works, like a champ, like a monster. It's a kitchen sink that takes all that other stuff (lightsabers!!!!) and makes it all work together without feeling kludged together. It OWNS all of it's source material, is internally and externally coherent. Nobles use technology, but mostly don't know how it works. They get indulgences from the church, which is a political move because the church needs the nobles and the nobles need the church. The third leg is the guilds, the technologist, who have power because they DO know how all that crap works, and nobody wants to give it all up.
Is the back story dull to read? I don't know, i didn't find it so. But you don't need to remember every detail. I could sum up the majority of the 'history' in a few lines, all anyone needs to really run the game, much less play in it.
You say Dune is your dream Epic Space setting, Fading Suns does Dune, right down to Prana Bindu and jump ships (sort of... Jump gates) and precognition and sheild fighting. You say Star Wars is your Epic Space, I've got your lightsabers and your telekinetic mystics. You say 40k is your Epic Space? I've got your Brother Battle in power armor vs. buglike aliens, right along side Imperial Legions fighting a doomed battle and a larger than life Emperor guiding mankind to a brighter future, and an oppressive theocractic church burning heretics in the streets. You say you Epic Space involves Massive Fleet battles? Got 'em. Pirates and space vikings? Got 'em. Massive four armed wookie aliens? Got 'em. Blood sucking bug me? Got 'em. Precursor aliens and wierd ancient artifacts that are beyond modern science? Got 'em.
Not saying its necessarily for everyone, but Epic? Got it in spades and then some. It does Epic so hard your grandchildren feel it RIght Now!
If I close my eyes, I can see Rifts (joke)
Dune isn't my idea of an epic, that would be star wars, or even star trek,
Quote from: pathfinderapIf I close my eyes, I can see Rifts (joke)
Dune isn't my idea of an epic, that would be star wars, or even star trek,
:D
Well, Unlike Rifts, Fading Suns is both coherent AND mechanically viable for long term play. Rifts is the ultimate kitchen sink...'setting'. Fading Suns is the 'Kitchen Sink done right'. They don't add shit that don't fit just to have it in there.
Star Wars is not only perfectly viable, it's frikken Easy to do Fading Suns style. You've got hidden, hunted psychic orders, a variety of mystic/psionic abilities and ancient laser swords that only a few people would have access too. You've got a star spanning empire you can fight as rebels, and princesses and hidden bastards are canon.
Star Trek? Not really Epic in my book. High powered? Certainly, but grounded in the human level. Star Trek didn't flow mythically enough to be Epic. But really, we need an English Lit major to continue this particular thread. I lack the jargon vocab to do it justice. :p
Greek lit, please ;)
Fading Suns always was a bit too White-Wolf-ish to me, but the basic idea is quite alright. But then, for sci-fi I never needed much source material. Most planets you travel to are pretty unique anyways and have to be done by the game master, and the rest is easy to simulate with whatever you've got. It's pretty easy to sell me on a new fantasy setting, but the usual point of view that a sci-fi game offers (beyond the rules and the general mood) is a few feet to high for my gustatory buds...
Which isn't all that bad, as you could easily mix and match products from several different publishers. SpaceMaster adventure set in the Star Wars universe with Space Gothic enemies? No problemo...
(Fitting ReichStar in the game might be a bit problematic, though ;) )
Quote from: SpikeStar Trek? Not really Epic in my book. High powered? Certainly, but grounded in the human level. Star Trek didn't flow mythically enough to be Epic. But really, we need an English Lit major to continue this particular thread. I lack the jargon vocab to do it justice. :p
Epic doesn't have to be mythically though, WWII was epic right?
To me the sheer scope and depth of the Star Trek universe is epic,
just a softer epic, were as star wars is a blatant in your face epic,
maybe someone should have started the thread with a definition of epic we could all agree on first hu? lol
Yeah, WWII was epic. It was mythic history writ large in our own times. The clash of nations and ideals, the individual stories can only exist when the larger one is reduced to backdrop. WWII isn't the story of Patton or Sgt Rock of Easy company, and it can never be about them.
Star Trek, on the other hand, has always been backdrop for the stories of individual... human scale... trials and tribulations. Not dissing trek or anything, but the focus tends to make the setting secondary. Un-Epic if you will.
Sos.. I need that Greek Lit jargon here, help me out man!;)
In other words I know exactly... sort of... what I'm trying to say. I just can't seem to express it as eloquently as I'd like. Or as Jargony, which can serve as an adequet replacement for eloquence in times like this....:what:
Quote from: SpikeYeah, WWII was epic. It was mythic history writ large in our own times. The clash of nations and ideals, the individual stories can only exist when the larger one is reduced to backdrop. WWII isn't the story of Patton or Sgt Rock of Easy company, and it can never be about them.
Star Trek, on the other hand, has always been backdrop for the stories of individual... human scale... trials and tribulations. Not dissing trek or anything, but the focus tends to make the setting secondary. Un-Epic if you will.
Sos.. I need that Greek Lit jargon here, help me out man!;)
In other words I know exactly... sort of... what I'm trying to say. I just can't seem to express it as eloquently as I'd like. Or as Jargony, which can serve as an adequet replacement for eloquence in times like this....:what:
I know people who were in that war, but they wouldn't describe it as mythic,
Understand changes with perspective,
And I don't care what you say,
la la la I'm not listening
Star Trek is epic in its own way,
Quote from: pathfinderapI know people who were in that war, but they wouldn't describe it as mythic,
Understand changes with perspective,
And I don't care what you say,
la la la I'm not listening
Star Trek is epic in its own way,
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Quote from: Spike:confused: :confused: :confused:
LOL which bit was :confused:
Sorry dude I was just joking about, didn't mean to throw you :)
Quote from: Spike:confused: :confused: :confused:
Man, a war that in one way or another affected almost every country on the planet, and had a whole continent and a whole ocean (and our biggest too) engulfed in the flames of war, seems pretty goddamn epic to me.
Even the Dominion War and Wolf 359 were positively small potatoes comparitively. The consequence of a TV budget, that the biggest conflicts in Star Trek history still pretty much boiled down to a single onscreen battle between a few dozen ships and a very limited number of locations.
Quote from: J ArcaneMan, a war that in one way or another affected almost every country on the planet, and had a whole continent and a whole ocean (and our biggest too) engulfed in the flames of war, seems pretty goddamn epic to me.
Even the Dominion War and Wolf 359 were positively small potatoes comparitively. The consequence of a TV budget, that the biggest conflicts in Star Trek history still pretty much boiled down to a single onscreen battle between a few dozen ships and a very limited number of locations.
its not about the wars in Star Trek, it about the scope of the universe,
the movies and thousands of shows, each adding and explanding the universe, think of all the tech (who does know warp drive, photon torps, phaser etc) the aliens (vulcans, klingons, romulans etc) it's got scope most take for granted, yet how many other sci/fi settings do people know in such detail?,
Quote from: pathfinderapits not about the wars in Star Trek, it about the scope of the universe,
the movies and thousands of shows, each adding and explanding the universe, think of all the tech (who does know warp drive, photon torps, phaser etc) the aliens (vulcans, klingons, romulans etc) it's got scope most take for granted, yet how many other sci/fi settings do people know in such detail?,
I think the disconnect is this: I agree that the setting has the potential to be Epic in every sense of the word. The stories typically told, and thus the feel of the setting as presented, however, is much more grounded in the individual level, the not epic. It's a different style.
Let me see if I can contrast a bit. In Star Wars, Luke Skywalker is less a character than an Avatar of type. The Young Hero. His Father is nothing less than the leader of his enemies (at least on screen for two movies...). He is 'The Last Of His Kind'. He's a collection of tropes and ideals. What kind of guy IS Luke? We really don't know. We can tell you a bit about the adolescent he was at the start, but by the end of the trilogy he had become 'the Last Jedi' who would do what was right... because it was expected of him.
In Star Trek, Data looks for his emotions, sleeps with Tasha Yar when drunk and explores what makes him different from humanity. Picard's history, his solutions to problems, his personality are all laid bare. The interactions between Kirk, Spock and McCoy are more important to the viewer than the plot du jour. The storytelling revolves around exploring the characters and their interactions far more than it does the 'grand stage' of the galaxy.
It is accepted fact that Fading Suns is written like an old fashioned Passion Play. Taken at face value, that means that many of the idividuals we meet in the books, and by extension our characters, are nothing more than tropes. Avatars of fiction. So and so is 'Dashing Noble swordsman', that over there is the 'Proud, unbroken Savage Alien'. That guy over there? He may be human, but he's the personification of Death in this tale. That is the difference between Epic and... there has to be a better word than 'not-epic'... and I probably know it, I just can't think of it to save my life!
I understand what you are saying,
but we have a diffrent point of view not based on the subject matter,(star trek, etc) but how we percive it, we would both have to see "epic" in the same way, to agree that the same subjects are epic, if you get my meaning
Quote from: SpikeIf I was a smarter intarweb geek and at all organized I'd have a file of quotes that other people have used to pull out for this argument. Instead I use my memory.
Fading Suns is admittedly a kitchen sink derivative setting. There is dune, there is 40k. There is the weird fuedal setting technology issue thing.
The thing of it is: It works, like a champ, like a monster. It's a kitchen sink that takes all that other stuff (lightsabers!!!!) and makes it all work together without feeling kludged together. It OWNS all of it's source material, is internally and externally coherent. Nobles use technology, but mostly don't know how it works. They get indulgences from the church, which is a political move because the church needs the nobles and the nobles need the church. The third leg is the guilds, the technologist, who have power because they DO know how all that crap works, and nobody wants to give it all up.
Is the back story dull to read? I don't know, i didn't find it so. But you don't need to remember every detail. I could sum up the majority of the 'history' in a few lines, all anyone needs to really run the game, much less play in it.
You say Dune is your dream Epic Space setting, Fading Suns does Dune, right down to Prana Bindu and jump ships (sort of... Jump gates) and precognition and sheild fighting. You say Star Wars is your Epic Space, I've got your lightsabers and your telekinetic mystics. You say 40k is your Epic Space? I've got your Brother Battle in power armor vs. buglike aliens, right along side Imperial Legions fighting a doomed battle and a larger than life Emperor guiding mankind to a brighter future, and an oppressive theocractic church burning heretics in the streets. You say you Epic Space involves Massive Fleet battles? Got 'em. Pirates and space vikings? Got 'em. Massive four armed wookie aliens? Got 'em. Blood sucking bug me? Got 'em. Precursor aliens and wierd ancient artifacts that are beyond modern science? Got 'em.
Not saying its necessarily for everyone, but Epic? Got it in spades and then some. It does Epic so hard your grandchildren feel it RIght Now!
FS is really nothing like Dune or Star Wars, except on the most superficial level.
Quote from: signoftheserpentFS is really nothing like Dune or Star Wars, except on the most superficial level.
I thought it was alot like Dune, with its personal shields, and houses, and politics etc, but than again, I never did get around to playing this,
>,<
Well thanks, Spike. I really needed to put yet another thing on the list of stuff to purchase via the internet. And an old game with loads of sourcebooks besides!
Seriously. That's awesome as hell. I've flipped through it before but never really got into it. And now I have to find it space in my boxes (very limited storage room for gamebooks ATM), locate the books at good discount, get them ordered and shipped....
Well, CA, I know that the books are still being published. I think the new publisher is 'Red Brick' or something like that. I don't think Holistic is still putting out new sourcebooks, which can be a blessing.
My LGS carries a fair amount of FS stuff, as I suspect others do as well.
You want Epic?
Hows this for "EPIC" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHpMAubwfQg&mode=related&search=
"Its Been Five Years" by Tom Smith
Yeah its a Babylon 5 video.
Or maybe THIS is your idea of epic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5a1ax6Jxzg
"Let The Day Begin" BSG video thats in my sig
What game system you choose maybe doesn't really matter.
For me it would be GURPS:SPACE or GURPS:TRAVELLER
Fifteen years ago it might have been STAR TREK:THE RPG or classic TRAVELLER.
To me an "epic" space campaign means BIG things and events HAPPEN!. Empires are defeated or saved, assassinations stopped , major battles stopped or won, celebrated with parties and wholkesome orgiues of giddy naked fun. (!!)
Not really a function of a game system that sort of thing.
More its how a GM plans out the story and how the players go for the gusto in the game.
- Ed C.
Seeing as I own seasons 2-5 of Babylon 5 I have to agree that in some ways it is a very Epic setting... using the standards I was arguing before. We explore any setting through the eyes of characters, and while the characters of Bab5 are right up front being characters the story being told is nothing less than the growth of humanity(as a whole) from childhood to adolescence, with the promise of eventual adulthood. Empires rise and fall during the scope of the show.
I can not speak for the new BSG, of course, but we are talking about a show based on a nearly biblical exodus of the last survivors of Man. And in the new series I believe the arc includes the subtext that we are being destroyed by our own creations... that is to say, brought down by our own Hubris.
To play Devils Advocate, however... B5 is also intensely character driven and many of the stories told are too personal to keep the Epic feel. Only once you buy into J. Micheal's conceit that these characters are the heroes of future myth can you justify calling their adventures 'epic'.
BSG... well, from what I know, which is to say very little, the characters, the heroes, they have flaws certainly. Epic stories need epic heroes. Epic heroes need epic flaws. Hubris, rather than mere pride, for example. Titanic rages that destroy loved ones... BSG's heroes have mortal flaws, things that are mere quirks in Epic stories. Drinks too much? Not Epic.
Just my take from the pulpit...:D
Being so Prideful that you corrupt an entire world just by setting foot on it.
FS is all about the epic!
WHAT???
No Core Commande love? :D
Quote from: NahualtWHAT???
No Core Commande love? :D
I can't love it - if I've never heard of it .
- Ed C.
Quote from: KoltarI can't love it - if I've never heard of it .
- Ed C.
sorry..here is a link:
http://www.dp9.com/Worlds/CC.htm
Quote from: NahualtWHAT???
No Core Commande love? :D
I love Dream Pod 9 games. Really I do. I just can't spare any love for Core Command. It's the weakest thing they've ever produced, and their move to 'refine' their ruleset into a more universal system, while appreciated for easier cross-game theft, turned into a mess. Seriously, two tracks of any single skill? Complexity (the second track) is a mess and poorly defined for over half the skills. Just... Just.... No.
As for Core Command itself: weak. Just weak. Feels half baked, like they couldn't take the time they'd obviously spent on previous offerings to fully develop the concept.