I was 3 at the time, but...
 
 D&D is the 800lb Gorilla - but what if something got in there before it really hit?

What game System+Setting do you think would have given AD&D a run for its money back in the day?

 Given an equal level of promotion could another system have claimed the crown?

  Or did the D&D brand have enough traction back then to take on all customers?

 To clarify: What System + a Fantasy setting could have done the deed.

Please, no mentions of d20 or any such derived games.


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This isn't going to go well at all.

I'd like to think TFT would have had a chance. A little more polish to the system, setting and presentation, plus a lot more promotion, and had been out earlier, it might have fared better, at least. Maybe if it came out as an RPG first and the skirmish game was supplemental.

Oh, and I think that 1979 was probably already to late.

I dunno, Tunnels & Trolls?  

More straight-forward mechanics, no funky dice, and its tongue partially in its cheek.  I think it might'a had a shot.

FATAL? :haw:

Given that 1977 was the original release of Star Wars and it immediately had a big following, I suspect that the West End Star Wars game could have given it a run for its money.  

In reality, the West End Star Wars RPG came out in 1987 -- four years after the release of Return of the Jedi, and thus was on the tail of the franchise.  Despite this, it was extremely strong.  In the Wizards of the Coast 1998 survey, they found that the West End Games Star Wars RPG was still the #3 game after D&D and Vampire -- with over 21% of gamers playing it at least monthly.  Note that this was after West End Games lost the license and declared bankruptcy; and before the release of The Phantom Menace in 1999.  

In 1979, the production values and streamlined mechanics of the Star Wars RPG would have made a big splash, whereas they were non-revolutionary in 1987.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I dunno, Tunnels & Trolls?  

More straight-forward mechanics, no funky dice, and its tongue partially in its cheek.  I think it might'a had a shot.

Um?  T&T was already out for four years and into its third edition in 1979.

I know it's a hypothetical question...but I don't think it's that simple.  D&D was the right kind of game (an offshoot of Wargames, the prime geek hobby) for the right kind of people (a new generation of young wargamers getting into the Lord of the Rings) at just the right time (when the idea of reenacting military battles was becoming old and the younger generation desired more fantasy and science fiction).

So yeah, it's nice to think that a more polished system would have changed the course of the hobby...but in reality, it probably would have done so for the worse.

Personally, I think history played out about as good as it could.  The early days weren't so much about having a great game system...it was about expanding on those core ideas and concepts in OD&D.  If there would have been a game system that was more complete and polished, much of the early creativity, that lead to all the cool things our hobby became, would never have happened.

IMHO, everything went well.  The more refined Basic D&D might have been a little better from the start...but I stick with my assessment that OD&D was the best possible game to kick off the hobby we know and love.

Quote from: jhkimUm?  T&T was already out for four years and into its third edition in 1979.

I think the OP meant 74

Quote from: jhkimGiven that 1977 was the original release of Star Wars and it immediately had a big following, I suspect that the West End Star Wars game could have given it a run for its money.

Definitely.  

If I.C.E.'s Middle Earth Role Playing System (1984) had been published in 1978, and been competing on the shelves with AD&D, I think it could have beaten it out given similar advertising budgets.  The D&D audience was still Tolkien-biased enough for the license to steal away massive numbers of D&D players.

Quote from: grubmanI think the OP meant 74

Why do people waste time with these gedanken excercises?*

* Says the guy who built his rep on alternate history and SF...

I'm sure if Your Favorite Game was released first, it would earn just as much venom as D&D, and there would be just as many folks wondering "What if D&D Came out first instead of Your Favorite Game?"

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceWhy do people waste time with these gedanken excercises?*

Cause it's fun!  The same reason people correct someone when they use a word wrong

gedanken: A hypothetical (“thought”) experiment which is possible in principle and is analyzed (but not performed) to test some hypothesis. Also known as thought experiment.

Since this hypothetical question is impossible to actually test...it's not gedanken...I think!  

:killingme:   That was fun!...just so you know, I had to look up gedanken...so your smarter than me anyway...but, it was still fun.

Or maybe I don't know what I'm saying...

Here's a reverse idea...

If Dungeons and Dragons had come out with 'D&D Space', 'D&D Detectives' etc (instead of seperate, incompatible games), could it have had a monopoly of all genres?

Actually, I just realised your hypothetical situation isn't hypothetical, it did happen in some non-English speaking countries: in Germany, das Schwarze Auge (a bit like a combination of Basic D&D and Tunnels and Trolls), and in Sweden Draker och Demoner (RuneQuest with a fair bit of D&D).

RaHoWa!!!!!

(no, not really..)