Quote from: flyingmiceThere aren't any. SF is a meta-genre in which each work is its own genre. THere is nothing universal or iconic in SF.

-clash

SF really isn't any more spread out than fantasy.  The tropes commonly put on display for fantasy are those for Tolkien ripoffs, which are only part of fantasy.  There is no one thing that's in 90% of SF but the same thing is true for fantasy.

FTL and aliens that are completely human except for 1-2 small differences are the most common.

Robots who would rather be human.

inter-species sex - the odds of being genetically compatible or even having matching parts with something with a completely different line of evolution is pretty small.

A common item, especially in space opera, is a return to a form of nobility. It's often things like hereditary heads of corporations instead of dukes but the effect is the same - the action revolves around a small number of special people.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!*shrug* I dunno. I just figured, if I could put up a sign on the road to SF, general though it may be...

Incisive and comprehensive, Doc! Lovely definition that gets right to the heart of it!

-clash

That's the Hard SF definition, there's lots of Space Opera where that isn't a theme...

Quote from: SosthenesThat's the Hard SF definition, there's lots of Space Opera where that isn't a theme...

Yeah, see, that was my thought, too.  I guess at this point we could start drawing lines in the sand to define hard SF and space opera and everything else that's related to them, and frankly I love that kind of action, but iconic of SF, it ain't.

Of SF fans, yes.  

Still...lots of the stuff that's come up in this thread is pretty iconic, because anybody could see a robot and a spaceship or something like that and say, "Oh, this is science fiction".

EDIT:  I should add, I loves me some space opera, boy.  But I'm not sure if it's a sub-genre of SF, or if it's its own snowflake.  I'm not really that worried about it, either, not while there are giant psionic conqueror slugs to defeat.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Yeah, see, that was my thought, too.  I guess at this point we could start drawing lines in the sand to define hard SF and space opera and everything else that's related to them, and frankly I love that kind of action, but iconic of SF, it ain't.

Of SF fans, yes.  

Still...lots of the stuff that's come up in this thread is pretty iconic, because anybody could see a robot and a spaceship or something like that and say, "Oh, this is science fiction".

Ah! I think I've been lookin at "iconic" as "representative of all SF" when others are looking at it as "You look at this and you say 'that's SF!'" which is a very different proposition. For that, a spaceship, a guy in a vacuum suit, a planet, or a dozen other cliches will serve.

-clash

It happens, Mr Bowley.  After all...you're only human.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!It happens, Mr Bowley.  After all...you're only human.

Make that "all too human" and I'm there.

-clash

Ah, yet another association thread?

What do you think of when someone says "Science-Fiction"?

Hajime Sorayama robots.

Then again, I think of those no matter what people say to me, so maybe it's not the right answer after all...

Me, too.

"Mister R., thank you for interviewing with us for this position; your resume is very promising.  Now, tell me...how much do you know about our business?"

"Soroyama robots."

"...excuse me?"

"Specifically the one with the teal bikini."

"I'm sorry, um...what does that have to do with our comp--"

"Metal nipples."

"I see.  Well, thank you for your time, mist--"

"I bet they're heated!"

...turns out, I wasn't Enron material.

Cat People are VERY Common; Add Lisanne Norman's Turning Point and sequels, the semi-Cat like people of the Freedom Series by Anne McAffrey, to the Chanur/Kzinti/Aslan etc. (Even Star Trek had them in the cartoon and at least one movie)


However one thing I think of in classic SF--(rather than subgenres) but that humans are still fundamentally human--same foibles, quirks, etc. While there is SF that breaks this--its one of those situations of intentionally breaking the classic trope, or of intentionally narrowing the broader SF genre. (Just like narrowing fantasy to "only" Sword and Sorcery stories with human protaganists)

Quote from: flyingmiceThe only cat people I've run across in reading are the engineered cats in Norstrillia, Cherryh's Hani, and the Kzinti of Niven's Known Space.

They also pop up in like every single Sci-Fi RPG ever made, damn near, and in a lot of sci-fi anime, and even a shitty Fox TV show (Dark Angel's lead character was cross with cat genes).  They were also the main bad guy in the Wing Commander games up until prophecy.  They're out there.  I agr on the lizard folk too, that wasn't one I thought of.

QuoteOnly place I've ever seen that mentioned is Trek. Ever.

It's only ever been directly named in Trek.  But it's influence and presence is everywhere.  

QuoteTrek and Traveller. That's it, and Trek only required planetary-wide government, not racial monocultures. That's just laziness.

Whether you believe it's really about just having a world government depends entirely on one's views of the practicality of a universal world government.  

And I think you are most fooling yourself if you think that trope is entirely limited to Trek and Traveller.  Absolutely everywhere.  

Personally, I think you've been reading too much obscure hard SF and skipping the rest.  

Quote from: J ArcanePersonally, I think you've been reading too much obscure hard SF and skipping the rest.  

Hiya J!

Personally, I think I haven't watched any SF anime (outside of the brilliant Cowboy Bebop) or watched enough crappy SF movies or TV.

I don't like anime, and I don't like crappy anything, and I hardly watch TV at all. The SF I most generally read is hardly considered Hard, and is definitely not obscure - Cherryh, Heinlein, Niven, Anderson, Pohl, and Vance are my favorites. Old-fashioned, maybe, but not obscure.

-clash

Speaking of cat people, another place they show up is in the "Starfire" novels by David Weber and Steve White. They're called Orions in those books.

Quote from: flyingmiceCherryh, Heinlein, Niven, Anderson, Pohl, and Vance are my favorites. Old-fashioned, maybe, but not obscure.

-clash

Have you read Cherryh's Chanur series?  It focuses mainly on cat/lion people.

Quote from: flyingmiceHiya J!

Personally, I think I haven't watched any SF anime (outside of the brilliant Cowboy Bebop) or watched enough crappy SF movies or TV.

I don't like anime, and I don't like crappy anything, and I hardly watch TV at all. The SF I most generally read is hardly considered Hard, and is definitely not obscure - Cherryh, Heinlein, Niven, Anderson, Pohl, and Vance are my favorites. Old-fashioned, maybe, but not obscure.

-clash

My big favorites in terms of literature have been Sterling and Card, though I haven't bothered to read any of Card's stuff past the third Ender book and Lovelock.  What I've heard of the second Ender trilogy gives me shivers from it's apparent awfulness.  

And yeah, I definitely get some stuff from media and RPGs and such.  I think you do yourself a disservice by assuming it's all crappy though, there's been some great stuff done in either.  Anime in particular has seen some really great SF, besides just Cowboy Bebop.  Animation and Sf just go hand in hand so very well, what with not having to blow so much cash on SFX budgets.