Which I found on Reddit and is astonishingly bone-headed, even by the standards of our industry:



Does anyone, anywhere, have a smidgen of proof backing this up? I would love for it to be true.

Sounds like just another day at the office for any large corporation.

I have no corroborating evidence of this, but I want to believe it because unlike many here, I don't believe that Hasbro is this rectifying influence on WotC--about to reel it in at any moment--but an old corporate parasite, just like any other major corporation. Probably drowning in bureaucracy. And this reaffirms my negative opinions of it. 

Plausible, but one wonders:

There had been discussion that WotC had mismanaged numerous board games that Hasbro had farmed out to them. Was this Hasbro misreading the situation, thinking WotC was expending resources on their books rather than their boardgames?

Also, I know corporate entities are stupid, but leaving millions of dollars on the table makes me want more corroboration than some redditor.

I've worked for companies that have happily shut down whole lines that were profitable, but they weren't profitable enough. So can easily see something like this happening.

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 28, 2020, 07:30:04 AM
I have no corroborating evidence of this, but I want to believe it because unlike many here, I don't believe that Hasbro is this rectifying influence on WotC--about to reel it in at any moment--but an old corporate parasite, just like any other major corporation. Probably drowning in bureaucracy. And this reaffirms my negative opinions of it. 

Agreed. Thanks, Free Market.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim on October 28, 2020, 08:10:06 AM
I've worked for companies that have happily shut down whole lines that were profitable, but they weren't profitable enough. So can easily see something like this happening.

Yep. It's all about ROI. They may have decided they could get a better return on that capital elsewhere in the company.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger on October 28, 2020, 08:16:40 AM
Agreed. Thanks, Free Market.

I hate comments like these because they are unproductive and imply that there would be somehow less bureaucracy and more product without a free market.

If I'm remembering Ryan Dancey's TSR postmortem correctly, there is a long and unproud history of whoever owns D&D failing to make money from novels based on D&D properties, even when the novels regularly become best sellers.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger on October 28, 2020, 08:16:40 AM
Agreed. Thanks, Free Market.

This isn't the Free Market, it's government regulations and supporting tort law regarding what can be considered "corporate malfeasance."

Basically, as the laws are currently set up, a publically held corporation can be sued by its shareholders for not doing everything possible to maximize their profits. It's not enough to just be profitable; you have to prove you're making the shareholders as much money as you can possibly make or you are in violation of the regulations and can be sued for outrageous sums.

Big corporations are literally not allowed by government regulations to do what's best for their customers or longevity of their product lines unless those things also make the shareholders more money.

The Free Market would allow corporations to choose customer service or paying their employees a fair wage or making improvements that ensure the corporation's longevity and, if shareholders are unhappy with those choices, they can sell their shares and put their money elsewhere.

The Not-So-Free-Market says anything other than maximizing profits for investors is a crime. In shutting down the novels Hasbro was certainly just following the regulations for corporate governance because the money spent on those novels could make more profit producing [insert that year's hottest toy line].

Bottom Line... if you care about the quality of your product, never allow your company to become publicly traded, nor sell your IP to a corporation even if they say you'll retain creative control no matter how much money they dangle in front of you. As soon as some bean counter thinks they have an idea to improve profits doing something anathema to your vision... you're either going to have to do it or be ousted for failing to be as profitable as possible.

This is also how the Woke work their way in too... they convince the bean counters that there's a whole untapped market of Woke customers out there and suddenly you find your RPG saddled with a "sensitivity reader" to ensure it complies with what the bean counters have been convinced will lead to improved profits.

And then when the profits fail to materialize because the Woke were lying through their teeth, the bean counters don't take responsibility for putting the RPG in an impossible situation... they cancel the RPG for not being profitable enough relative to the bean counters' projections.

So, yeah, I fully believe Hasbro pulled exactly that maneuver... and I fully believe they'll do it again once WokeTC runs D&D into the ground chasing phantom woke customers (at which point the IP will go into other lines to maintain the trademarks and, at best, any further RPG material using the D&D IP will be licensed properties that shift companies every few years the same way Star Wars does because Hasbro corporate governance will demand unrealistic licensing costs the moment it starts to turn a profit).

Quote from: Dimitrios on October 28, 2020, 10:00:58 AM
If I'm remembering Ryan Dancey's TSR postmortem correctly, there is a long and unproud history of whoever owns D&D failing to make money from novels based on D&D properties, even when the novels regularly become best sellers.

Said post mortem can be read here.

Quote from: Xisiqomelir on October 28, 2020, 03:23:37 AMDoes anyone, anywhere, have a smidgen of proof backing this up? I would love for it to be true.

While it's true that Hasbro made a deal with HarperCollins in 2016 which cut out there less profitable books, that snippet doesn't explain how WotC was working on new DragonLance novels with Penguin and not HarperCollins.

Hasbro has a long history of letting their IP go fallow for several years, thus trying to create excitement when a line returns. This could have been their thinking in 2016 if the D&D line of novels weren't selling particularly well.

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 28, 2020, 07:30:04 AM
I have no corroborating evidence of this, but I want to believe it because unlike many here, I don't believe that Hasbro is this rectifying influence on WotC--about to reel it in at any moment--but an old corporate parasite, just like any other major corporation. Probably drowning in bureaucracy. And this reaffirms my negative opinions of it. 

Exactly, Hasbro sitting down with WotC and giving them a fatherly talk about being too woke is total fantasy. If the WotC drama even registers with them, it will be in the context of a balance sheet.

Quote from: Chris24601 on October 28, 2020, 10:34:10 AM

Quote from: Nerzenjäger on October 28, 2020, 08:16:40 AM
Agreed. Thanks, Free Market.

This isn't the Free Market, it's government regulations and supporting tort law regarding what can be considered "corporate malfeasance."

Basically, as the laws are currently set up, a publically held corporation can be sued by its shareholders for not doing everything possible to maximize their profits. It's not enough to just be profitable; you have to prove you're making the shareholders as much money as you can possibly make or you are in violation of the regulations and can be sued for outrageous sums.

Big corporations are literally not allowed by government regulations to do what's best for their customers or longevity of their product lines unless those things also make the shareholders more money.

The Free Market would allow corporations to choose customer service or paying their employees a fair wage or making improvements that ensure the corporation's longevity and, if shareholders are unhappy with those choices, they can sell their shares and put their money elsewhere.

The Not-So-Free-Market says anything other than maximizing profits for investors is a crime. In shutting down the novels Hasbro was certainly just following the regulations for corporate governance because the money spent on those novels could make more profit producing [insert that year's hottest toy line].

Bottom Line... if you care about the quality of your product, never allow your company to become publicly traded, nor sell your IP to a corporation even if they say you'll retain creative control no matter how much money they dangle in front of you. As soon as some bean counter thinks they have an idea to improve profits doing something anathema to your vision... you're either going to have to do it or be ousted for failing to be as profitable as possible.

This is also how the Woke work their way in too... they convince the bean counters that there's a whole untapped market of Woke customers out there and suddenly you find your RPG saddled with a "sensitivity reader" to ensure it complies with what the bean counters have been convinced will lead to improved profits.

And then when the profits fail to materialize because the Woke were lying through their teeth, the bean counters don't take responsibility for putting the RPG in an impossible situation... they cancel the RPG for not being profitable enough relative to the bean counters' projections.

So, yeah, I fully believe Hasbro pulled exactly that maneuver... and I fully believe they'll do it again once WokeTC runs D&D into the ground chasing phantom woke customers (at which point the IP will go into other lines to maintain the trademarks and, at best, any further RPG material using the D&D IP will be licensed properties that shift companies every few years the same way Star Wars does because Hasbro corporate governance will demand unrealistic licensing costs the moment it starts to turn a profit).

Public Corporations and the protections they buy from legislators are as far away from Free Market Capitalism as you can get.

Quote from: rytrasmi on October 28, 2020, 10:42:23 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 28, 2020, 07:30:04 AM
I have no corroborating evidence of this, but I want to believe it because unlike many here, I don't believe that Hasbro is this rectifying influence on WotC--about to reel it in at any moment--but an old corporate parasite, just like any other major corporation. Probably drowning in bureaucracy. And this reaffirms my negative opinions of it. 

Exactly, Hasbro sitting down with WotC and giving them a fatherly talk about being too woke is total fantasy. If the WotC drama even registers with them, it will be in the context of a balance sheet.

I doubt Hasbro would ever just tell WOTC to cut it out. We do know from people working there that they can and will tighten the dogs leash if it screws up enough to get the higher ups notice. Which seems to be few and far between. They seem pretty content to let WOTC dig their own grave rather than reign them in in a more direct manner and no clue what triggers them taking notice.

So no they arent going to come in and say "no more SJW". Instead they will most likely cut budgeting or issue another ultimatum to get profits up or else. I cant really see Hasbro looking at the problem and seeing the SJW problem as something to be dealt with.

As for the book situation. Seems weird as wouldnt they have known WOTC had a book branch when they acquired them? Seems more likely its just WOTC being WOTC and trying to deflect blame.

But.

Having seen multiple times how companies can and will kill off profitable venues. All bets are off as to wither Hasbro did or didnt. We are likely never going to know the truth. I can ask a few novelists I know who have worked for TSR and WOTC. But I doubt theyd know why things went as they did.

But considering its WOTC. Part of me wants to lay good odds that this book deal thing from 2016 is just another of their long list of screwups. This is the company after all that would rather burn product or dump it in a landfill rather than sell it. This is also the same WOTC that laid down their own edict to a line to sell well or be cancelled. Then overproduced it, and cancelled the game and burned said excess when it sold far better than their deadline.

WOTC is made of distilled failure. And if they cant fail then they will self sabotage till they do fail.