For dudes to be so wrong, so often?
Namely, everyone who was predicting that this year would see 4e D&D.

Or indeed next year, since if a new edition was coming, it would have been announced by now.

You know these guys: whether they be guys that like to pretend they're more influential in the industry than they really are (like Chris Pramas) or just the hordes of speculative idiots on message forums.

They don't get that Wizards has as much risk of loss in a new edition as it has of gain; they are better off doing a "re-imaging" of D&D (with things like the new Basic set) and holding off on a new edition until its clear that its absolutely necessary.  I'm not saying it won't ever happen, it almost certainly will; but it wasn't this year, and it won't be next year, and I'd be a little surprised if it was in 2008.

As for your stupid guessing games of what it will be like: please, please, stop with those. They're painful to read.  They're always based on either your asinine prejudice against D&D or the WoTC corporation, or they're based on your ridiculous petty personal preferences and wishful thinking.
You're only humiliating yourselves.

RPGPundit

Could some of these dire predictions actually be an attempt to jerk Wizards chain?  Some sort of PR assault, basically?

If I were running the business side of things at WotC I'd be *very* careful about announcing a D&D4e very much in advance of it shipping.  Doing so could hurt the sales on the 3.x products that are already being sold.  

I can't see much business incentive to tipping their hand about 4e too early, and I'm sure the people working on it have very strict + serious non-disclosure contracts they're working within.

WotC is a much better run business than TSR was, and I'd think it would be even more so now that they're under the Hasbro umbrella.

One thing you can say for sure -- they're looking at the popularity of World of Warcraft and trying to think of ways to bring those people into the hobby.  It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

I thought the expectation was generally announce in 2007/8, ship 2008/9? Do you have a quote from Pramas on that? Or is this something from way back?

Oh, and....

Quote.....I'm not saying it won't ever happen, it almost certainly will; but it wasn't this year, and it won't be next year, and I'd be a little surprised if it was in 2008.

As for your stupid guessing games of what it will be like: please, please, stop with those. They're painful to read[/I].......

.....ummm *looks at first paragraph* *looks at second paragraph* *looks back at first paragraph* yeah, ummmm.....

Quote from: StuartIf I were running the business side of things at WotC I'd be *very* careful about announcing a D&D4e very much in advance of it shipping.  Doing so could hurt the sales on the 3.x products that are already being sold.

What product?  Shit & Turds: Retread Gods Nobody Wants In Their Campaign?  That's the model they've worked on, they roll out the new version when they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for supplements. *shrug*

Annoucing ahead of time also:
1) Doesn't build bad blood by giving the customers the impression you are screwing them over.
2) Gives them time to lower inventory. Every boat leaks, and a BIG boat will have lots of leaks. To turn the ship a lot of people will figure out anyway and the rumours will spread like wildfire via these new fangled Inratnets.
3) People that think they'll stay with 3e for a while (even if the don't) will continue to by 3e books, even after 4e release.

I think you'll see Hasbro divest itself of D&D entirely before you'll see a 4.0.  

All the signs for them to do it are already present.

Quote from: blakkieI thought the expectation was generally announce in 2007/8, ship 2008/9? Do you have a quote from Pramas on that?

Not all of RPGPundit's rants are on entirely made up controversies.

I think over half of various pundits who had weighed in early in the year on various forums had expected a 2007 release with a Gencon 2006 announcement.  Many were saying that Hasbro was desperate to prop up sales so wanted to rush out a new edition.

Those same people have probably now revised their predictions to a year later.

I had been thinking 2008-9.  Now I'd guess 2008.  They are likely to use the revised Star Wars to test the waters on a few concepts.  I don't think it will be the level of change that occurred between 2 and 3, more like the change between 1 and 2, with attempts to clean things up.  But I'm guess and I could be very wrong.

Quote from: VellorianI think you'll see Hasbro divest itself of D&D entirely before you'll see a 4.0.  

All the signs for them to do it are already present.

What signs?  If anything I expect them to expand D&D beyond the RPG, not dump it.

Edit:  For the last decade, Hasbro has been a collector of licenses, not a seller.  They've bought most of the toy and board game producers and have a wide a array of brand names.  D&D is just another brand name.  The only reason I can see for selling of a branch is if they are strapped for capital.  I haven't checked their stock report for a year or two - then it looked like they were slowly coming out of the debt incurred from buying so many companies.

When will you make an end, Buonarotti?

Quote from: RPGPunditFor dudes to be so wrong, so often?
Namely, everyone who was predicting that this year would see 4e D&D.

Or indeed next year, since if a new edition was coming, it would have been announced by now.

You know these guys: whether they be guys that like to pretend they're more influential in the industry than they really are (like Chris Pramas) or just the hordes of speculative idiots on message forums.

They don't get that Wizards has as much risk of loss in a new edition as it has of gain; they are better off doing a "re-imaging" of D&D (with things like the new Basic set) and holding off on a new edition until its clear that its absolutely necessary.  I'm not saying it won't ever happen, it almost certainly will; but it wasn't this year, and it won't be next year, and I'd be a little surprised if it was in 2008.

As for your stupid guessing games of what it will be like: please, please, stop with those. They're painful to read.  They're always based on either your asinine prejudice against D&D or the WoTC corporation, or they're based on your ridiculous petty personal preferences and wishful thinking.
You're only humiliating yourselves.

RPGPundit

Can I get an AMEN!!??

:pope:

Quote from: NicephorusWhat signs?  If anything I expect them to expand D&D beyond the RPG, not dump it.

Edit:  For the last decade, Hasbro has been a collector of licenses, not a seller.  They've bought most of the toy and board game producers and have a wide a array of brand names.  D&D is just another brand name.  The only reason I can see for selling of a branch is if they are strapped for capital.  I haven't checked their stock report for a year or two - then it looked like they were slowly coming out of the debt incurred from buying so many companies.

Signs that I have seen:

1) Hasbro is divesting out of nearly all their RPG licenses and has been seeking third parties to continue them.  Basically, they retain the ownership and license, but farm out the actual production and support.

2) Hasbro has always been more focused on the simple, in the box, easy-go games.  They're continuing that focus with miniatures and other broad market appeal products.

3) Hasbro offers little to no support for the local game-shop.  It's a niche market.  They're not into niche markets.  They're into volume retail.

4) Hasbro (as any good business) is focusing on lines that have a high turnover and earn a high margin.  RPGs (as a whole or individually) do not fit that profile.

Quote from: VellorianSigns that I have seen:

1) Hasbro is divesting out of nearly all their RPG licenses and has been seeking third parties to continue them.

How many licenses have they actially spun off and when?  A couple of them were fairly early on. I suspect that they looked at TSR sales numbers for some lines and realized there is just a tiny hardcore audience.  

On the other things, that's why I expect D&D board games, computer games, miniatures, CPGs, with quiet attempts at a decent licensed cartoon to help push the lines.

Yet another insipid, pointless 4E thread.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=179773

Garnering the same responses as the last 4E thread. It's like deja vu all over and over and over again.

yeah, here comes more of that half-assed forum speculation, but I completely agree that the change will be less drastic, and more along the lines of trying to fuse the mini game with the rpg game.  (with SW:Saga potentially being the litmus test for that sort of thing.)

feel free to point back at this thread in the following years and gloat about how "i told you so!", but i highly doubt Hasbro will get rid of the license.  regardless, speculating about this stuff is about as productive as RPG Theory.

QuoteWhat product? Shit & Turds: Retread Gods Nobody Wants In Their Campaign? That's the model they've worked on, they roll out the new version when they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for supplements. *shrug*

The 3.5 Player's Handbook is #63 on Amazon.com's most popular games list.  (updated hourly)  This is still the most popular book from WotC at Amazon -- and they have 45 different books listed.

I think the core books remain a significant income earner for WotC -- even if most hardcore players already own them.