This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races  (Read 14002 times)

Chris24601

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • C
  • Posts: 3326
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2020, 07:53:12 AM »
In other words, the Purity Spiral continues to its logical conclusion... you either hit the limit of your tolerance for insanity and bail out (in politics this is being Red Pilled; you are now an oppressor according to the SJW worldview but no longer give a frack) or the few who ride it all the way into the event horizon end up locked up somewhere for the safety of themselves and others as they rock in their white jackets that they say are just the final manifestation of the white patriarchy in between their endless shrieking of REEEEEE!

At some point the last lunatic at The Big Purple and these spiraling game outfits is going to ban/fire the second to last lunatic and then have conversations with the voices in their heads until the money to keep it going runs out.

Meanwhile the sane and recently Red Pilled will look for the Parler/MeWe equivalents of their gaming media because if there’s one thing we’re good at, it’s adapting.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2020, 08:38:35 AM »
So, uh... I had a good time this weekend. My best buddy's young boys have joined the group and are rapidly acclimating to the game (the younger takes a little patience but eh, we're all old hands). One is playing an elven ranger, the other a human barbarian. Shall I demand they play children instead of their PCs?

Seriously, these people need to be chased out of the industry, or at least out of the hobby.

rytrasmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2020, 10:31:49 AM »
🎲 Daniel Kwan, of Asians Represent, best known for trying to shove Oriental Adventures down the memory hole. They wrote the Chinese history section of the game in question. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters without a lot of time and preparation.

🎲 Sara Thompson, creator of the combat wheelchair, who is not confined to a wheelchair, and thinks all doorways in D&D should be 5'. They were more than happy when Matt Mercer shared their invention with his followers despite also not being confined to a wheelchair. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters at all.

🎲 Haley Kugler, a 'literally who' Sara felt important enough to reference in their statemen above. They believe 'white people' playing Chinese characters is digital yellow face.
<snip>

Holy fuck it must be tedious to game with these people, if they even game at all.

I imagine it's something like this scene from Life of Brian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs

One of the ironies (and there are many, as well as many contradictions) is that by fencing off certain races/classes/settings, they are destroying the possibility of teaching tolerance by way of empathy. You would think if they were honestly trying to create more tolerance in the world, they would encourage more people to play disadvantaged characters.
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout
Be merry my friends
Be merry

RandyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • R
  • Posts: 1218
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2020, 11:53:24 AM »
Seriously, these people need to be chased out of the industry, or at least out of the hobby. civilized society.

Put them where they can harm no one, and have no channel by which they can be heard. Let those who would voice compassion on their behalf commit to be their permanent caretakers, and be held accountable for any harm they do.

bat

  • A bottle in front of me..
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
    • Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2020, 12:27:44 PM »
Do these people who would impose their own morals and values upon everyone else and dictate what we can or can not do in the privacy of our own homes like the same done to them? I was told the other day to get a moral compass for striving to be apolitical and not choosing a side. I am not worried about living my life according to the morals or values of other people, if I was handed a moral compass (if such things were real) I would smash it on the nearest rock anyway. For these people who would impose their beliefs on others do not see that they are exactly the monsters that they claim to hate and fight and be better than. They are no better than the 'nazis' they see behind every corner, striving to control, manipulate, dictate to, and if need be, dismiss, deplatform and dehumanize.

One can choose to rush to kneel before them or stand on their own.
Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets

Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

Jag är inte en människa. Det här är bara en dröm, och snart vaknar jag.


Running: Barbarians of Lemuria, Black Sword Hack
Playing: AD&D 1st Edition.

BrokenCounsel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • B
  • Posts: 115
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2020, 12:32:43 PM »
I really do hope that Matt Mercer doesn't introduce any non-white, non-human NPCs in any of his future Critical Role games. Coz he'd have to roleplay these marginalized minorities to some extent, and he's already admitted that that's problematic for him, so, y'know, good luck with being a half competent DM from now on. I also hope he vets the cast members who play on his streams too, to make sure they're not playing something that denies a POC a voice or position in the game.

Because otherwise he could be accused of being a fucking hypocrite, and I'm sure he don't want that.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2020, 01:07:08 PM »
I really do hope that Matt Mercer doesn't introduce any non-white, non-human NPCs in any of his future Critical Role games.
For extra absurdity, add in non-male (assuming MM identifies as male), non-disabled, non-English-speaking, and a few dozen more forbidden categories. Soon, all of his NPCs will be GM inserts of himself, because that's all that will be left open to him.

Joey2k

  • Anarcho-anarchist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • I punch SJWs
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2020, 01:49:51 PM »
Soon, all of his NPCs will be GM inserts of himself, because that's all that will be left open to him.

Now that is hilarious. The natural progression of this particular brand of lunacy
I'm/a/dude

bat

  • A bottle in front of me..
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
    • Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2020, 02:42:33 PM »
One other aspect that my meandering, abstract brain seized upon- Why exactly are they barring this? Are they saying that EVERY imagined world carries the EXACT SAME baggage as our world? If so they are latching onto every single DM/GM/etc and every writer's own created world and assuring us that every created/imagined world is plagued by every ill of our own world. It is pretty amazing to think of the audacity of saying that you know that every person can only imprint their escapist, imaginary universe with our world from 1694-2020 and its flaws and mistakes. And that every law of our world (like orcs cannot only be evil) MUST be true and absolute with no deviancy.
Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets

Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

Jag är inte en människa. Det här är bara en dröm, och snart vaknar jag.


Running: Barbarians of Lemuria, Black Sword Hack
Playing: AD&D 1st Edition.

TJS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • T
  • Posts: 796
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2020, 03:07:37 PM »
🎲 Daniel Kwan, of Asians Represent, best known for trying to shove Oriental Adventures down the memory hole. They wrote the Chinese history section of the game in question. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters without a lot of time and preparation.

🎲 Sara Thompson, creator of the combat wheelchair, who is not confined to a wheelchair, and thinks all doorways in D&D should be 5'. They were more than happy when Matt Mercer shared their invention with his followers despite also not being confined to a wheelchair. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters at all.

🎲 Haley Kugler, a 'literally who' Sara felt important enough to reference in their statemen above. They believe 'white people' playing Chinese characters is digital yellow face.
<snip>

Holy fuck it must be tedious to game with these people, if they even game at all.

I imagine it's something like this scene from Life of Brian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs

One of the ironies (and there are many, as well as many contradictions) is that by fencing off certain races/classes/settings, they are destroying the possibility of teaching tolerance by way of empathy. You would think if they were honestly trying to create more tolerance in the world, they would encourage more people to play disadvantaged characters.
It's deeply deeply stupid.

This sort of attitude basically inevitably makes rpgs more white not less and more European in their inspiration.

Basically there's a simple arithmetic.  Why would you now publish something like the Hordlelands or Kara-Tur or Kindred of the East?  For one thing you'd be opening a huge hornets nest as every up and coming grifter looking to make their name will be poring through your book for the slightest mistep or making one up if they can't find one.  And hiring the last generation as 'consultants' is just a waste of time - the next generation make space for themselves precisely by making out their predecessors to be just another symptom of the problem (this pattern became obvious to me when I took a development studies subject 20 years ago).

And of course, if you're going around accusing people of digital yellowface or blackface, then you're threatening to dramatically cut the audience for such products (because, of course, you also can't play a white person in a non-white setting - as that would be the 'white saviour' trope).

So it will be generic eurocentric Forgotten Realms or similar to the end of time. (With random superficial diversity tacked on).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 03:09:27 PM by TJS »

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11746
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2020, 03:21:36 PM »
But since you're curious:

🎲 Daniel Kwan, of Asians Represent, best known for trying to shove Oriental Adventures down the memory hole. They wrote the Chinese history section of the game in question. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters without a lot of time and preparation.

🎲 Sara Thompson, creator of the combat wheelchair, who is not confined to a wheelchair, and thinks all doorways in D&D should be 5'. They were more than happy when Matt Mercer shared their invention with his followers despite also not being confined to a wheelchair. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters at all.

🎲 Haley Kugler, a 'literally who' Sara felt important enough to reference in their statemen above. They believe 'white people' playing Chinese characters is digital yellow face.


And my takeaways are the following:

🎲 Radical #SJWs like Chris, Ajit, and Matt are now being replaced by even more radical members of the very culture they helped create, which at this point is dominated by clout chasing narcissists, neurotics, and the occasional sociopath. They did not eliminate the toxic elements when they had the chance, and now it's too late.

🎲 These next gen #SJWs have successfully silenced a #POC from running the game they wrote, and created chilling effects which will prevent others (esp 'white people') from playing it, which may in fact be their goal.

🎲 Both Daniel and Sara turned on the very people who paid for and promoted their work, fully demonstrating that not only is appeasing them not enough, but getting them directly involved will only make you more vulnerable, not less, regardless of how marginalized you are.

Thanks, Anon. I brought the up in a private group with some overlap of the people mentioned. I agree that there is a more radical faction than Chris and Ajit. In general, though, there's always a more radical faction than whoever is currently dominant. It's not clear to me that the more radical faction are winning overall, but then, I don't hang out on Twitter.

It seems some people expressed that it was about it being a video livestream rather than about private RPG play. i.e. It's fine for white players to play Asian characters in a private game, but doing so for a broadcast livestream is different. But the point of livestreaming is that it's supposed to follow the rules of how the game is actually played, not just be a themed TV show.

Joey2k

  • Anarcho-anarchist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • I punch SJWs
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2020, 03:29:02 PM »

This sort of attitude basically inevitably makes rpgs more white not less and more European in their inspiration.

Basically there's a simple arithmetic.  Why would you now publish something like the Hordlelands or Kara-Tur or Kindred of the East?  For one thing you'd be opening a huge hornets nest as every up and coming grifter looking to make their name will be poring through your book for the slightest mistep or making one up if they can't find one.  And hiring the last generation as 'consultants' is just a waste of time - the next generation make space for themselves precisely by making out their predecessors to be just another symptom of the problem (this pattern became obvious to me when I took a development studies subject 20 years ago).

And of course, if you're going around accusing people of digital yellowface or blackface, then you're threatening to dramatically cut the audience for such products (because, of course, you also can't play a white person in a non-white setting - as that would be the 'white saviour' trope).

So it will be generic eurocentric Forgotten Realms or similar to the end of time. (With random superficial diversity tacked on).

Yeah, wasn't there just another "controversy" that too many players in BG3 were playing white males?

Which way do they want it? Are we supposed to branch out and play other races or stay in our lane?
I'm/a/dude

rytrasmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2020, 03:38:33 PM »
generic eurocentric Forgotten Realms or similar to the end of time. (With random superficial diversity tacked on).

Wait wait wait a sec, hold the phone. Sorry, that won't fly. Generic Eurocentric systems are cultural appropriation of a historically disadvantaged people. Europe was a cultural and scientific backwater compared to China and the Arabic world in the middle ages. I'm afraid anyone without sufficient cultural context won't be able to play most human classes, and certainly not Barbarians as that is just a baldfaced insult. Berserker rage anyone? Highly problematic and insensitive.

Seriously though, I couldn't agree more.
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout
Be merry my friends
Be merry

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2020, 04:06:35 PM »
I haven't been able to find posts from those originally expressing criticism of Mercer's casting, though. It was frustrating to me that Pundit didn't post to what he was talking about - but from your link, Matt and Chris do the same thing, not linking to who they're speaking about. I guess it's just the norm for Internet discussion these days, but it runs against my preferences.

It's the norm here because The Pundit is just lazy. It's the norm elsewhere because many sites now consider sharing #Tweets to be brigading/harassment unless the poster has over some arbitrary number of followers. In general it's becoming far more difficult to hold people accountable or know what the rules even are.


But since you're curious:

🎲 Daniel Kwan, of Asians Represent, best known for trying to shove Oriental Adventures down the memory hole. They wrote the Chinese history section of the game in question. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters without a lot of time and preparation.

🎲 Sara Thompson, creator of the combat wheelchair, who is not confined to a wheelchair, and thinks all doorways in D&D should be 5'. They were more than happy when Matt Mercer shared their invention with his followers despite also not being confined to a wheelchair. They believe 'white people' shouldn't play Chinese characters at all.

🎲 Haley Kugler, a 'literally who' Sara felt important enough to reference in their statemen above. They believe 'white people' playing Chinese characters is digital yellow face.


And my takeaways are the following:

🎲 Radical #SJWs like Chris, Ajit, and Matt are now being replaced by even more radical members of the very culture they helped create, which at this point is dominated by clout chasing narcissists, neurotics, and the occasional sociopath. They did not eliminate the toxic elements when they had the chance, and now it's too late.

🎲 These next gen #SJWs have successfully silenced a #POC from running the game they wrote, and created chilling effects which will prevent others (esp 'white people') from playing it, which may in fact be their goal.

🎲 Both Daniel and Sara turned on the very people who paid for and promoted their work, fully demonstrating that not only is appeasing them not enough, but getting them directly involved will only make you more vulnerable, not less, regardless of how marginalized you are.

This is why I can afford to be lazy! Well done.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Darrin Kelley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • D
  • Posts: 1182
Re: I Told You So: D&D SJWs Demand You Don't Play Other Races
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2020, 04:13:47 PM »
In my books, one of the major cultures I created was a merger of Japanese (post-WW2), mixed with a culture that can only be described as pre-First Dynasty Ancient Egyptian. This is entirely fictional. But the resulting village is where most of my main characters come from.

An equivalent doesn't really exist in the real world. But the research for this culture I did a lot of work on over the ensuing years. And I intend this culture to be a part of an RPG setting once I'm ready for that.

I put a lot of hard work into that culture and its traditions. And the idea that some moron could just come up and tell someone they can't play a member of that culture because they are not of that culture makes me flabbergasted. And shows me that the person making such a demand has no grasp on the separation of fantasy and reality.

The sheer idiocy of such a demand just amazes me.

It's an attack on the entirety of the media. Not just RPGs. But authors as well.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 06:22:44 PM by Darrin Kelley »