Can't say I am surprised by these changes; in 5e it already felt that they were phasing out alignment since the beginning and I think the tasha source book is what introduced new rules for races and ability scores that will now be the norm.

You would think that they would use this chance to improve upon 5e but nope, instead they will waste time, effort and resources on this crap.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 09, 2021, 09:47:02 AM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?

They want that date to mark the 50th Anniversary of D&D. In other words, hype.

Pundit has it right. Never ever underestimate hype, even when people are jaded.

Yup.

No amount of hype will bring me back to D&D until the people running the show change. And even then, it'll have to be GOOD.

It's the 50th anniversary, so wouldn't it make sense to release a bunch of products that celebrate that history? Some new glossy coffee table book on the history of D&D, a new printing of the white box, an update of the silver anniversary collection to a gold collection....

Quote from: Pat on October 11, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
It's the 50th anniversary, so wouldn't it make sense to release a bunch of products that celebrate that history? Some new glossy coffee table book on the history of D&D, a new printing of the white box, an update of the silver anniversary collection to a gold collection....

I know what I'd do, but there's no way WotC would.
Given that it has to be "Backwards-Compatible " with 5e. So either a 5.5 or a 5e.
1. Make a big deal of it being a 50th Anniversary version. (Okay, this part, they will do, with alt covers and all that.)
2. Let the Marketing team go ape shit with random swag. Keychains, backpacks, t-shirts, dice, all that. (This, they will do.)
3. Pull the Dragonborn, Teiflings, Warlocks and casting subclasses of Martial archetypes out of PHB. Add the Cavalier and Scout subclasses.  MM and DMG are fine as-is. Add in whatever monsters and items that have come out since 2014. Big "50th Anniversary Edition!" on the front, even if you change absolutely nothing inside.
4. Put out a 256 page Forgotten Realms setting guide with pull-out map. It's your official setting. Say it's damn name.
Put out a Dragonlance book, Ravenloft setting book, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape books. All under a "D&D Classics Revisited" tag line.
5. Put out all the MtG settings books under a "D&D Expanded Worlds" tag line.
6. Throw a version of the 1e Wilderness Survival Guide and Dungeoneer's Survival Guide together in one book, along with some map making advice, yada yada. Throw the Artificer, Warlock, additional races and subclasses into some sort of PHB 2. Call them "D&D Expanded Options" or whatever.
7. Profit!
8. (Make massive staffing changes, but they won't make the ones I would.)

All the "I told You so" people are confirmed.

Hasbro just wants funds from the D&D IP.

They benefit from flame wars. The benefit from bad publicity. They benefit from design excellence. Hasbro can have what they want.

Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.

They only feel pain when D&D 5e loses profits.

5.5 is going to be the biggest flop that Hazards-Of-The-Bro ever experienced for the following reasons:

1. Their target audiences is broke, woke, and will pirate and torrent all of the matereal.  These people want everything for free and have no qualms about stealing something they can't afford because "Kapitalizum iz evil".
2. Thry are alienating the older players, calling them "_ists", and "_phobes", which will drive us away to seek out better games.
3. The next two years will show reduced sales as no one wants to buy books for a system that will probably be obsolte soon.  Other RPG companies will court D&D players with creative and innovative matereal. They are lean and hungry to take away the profits from the old dinosaur that is Hazards-Of-The Bro. 
4. The writers and artists kinda suck.  The quality of the matereal put out by Hazards-Of-The-Bro has been getting steadily worse since Xanathar's Guide came out.  The art resembles cartoons and is very corny, not at all remeniscent of the heroic struggles that D&D characters once had to endure.  The adventure plots are hakneyed, and the same monsters reappear in every book.  I haven't seen a decent trap since Curse Of Strahd.  The riddles and puzzles are uninspiring, and since they are doing away with alignment (mostly), they remove one of the elements that gave impetus to most of the adventures.  It is hard to be a hero in a world without good or evil.  Player characters will just be wandering killers, or students in some mage-school trying to get a date for the prom.  [yawn]

Quote from: Spinachcat on October 10, 2021, 03:37:21 AM
50e as woke shit that sells phenomenally is a no brainer.

No question that the DM's Guild will be required to adhere to the new edition.

At some point they are going to wokify it enough that it stops selling phenomenally.  Just like what happened with the comic book industry, the Star Wars franchise, etc.  I've heard it described as up and coming woke people selling executives on the idea that social justice is the hot thing and pointing to twitter as proof, then the company commits to emphasizing social issues over good story and character, and the product flops but the creators justify it by blaming bigots in the fanbase and keep going.  Eventually the whole product line tanks and the executives cancel it as unprofitable.  At no point in this cycle does anybody recognize that it was adding politics that was the problem all along, and then it's too late.  It's dead.

I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released.  Players are already invested in it.  If they overhaul the game, tho, and produce an edition that's woke from the beginning I can see it players not adopting it and the game failing.

Quote from: kidkaos2 on October 12, 2021, 03:35:37 AM
I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released. 

It was a bit Woke on release. But not enough to scare the normies. It went Full Retard when Jeremy Crawford became the uncontested King of D&D.

Quote from: S'mon on October 12, 2021, 03:48:40 AM

Quote from: kidkaos2 on October 12, 2021, 03:35:37 AM
I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released. 

It was a bit Woke on release. But not enough to scare the normies. It went Full Retard when Jeremy Crawford became the uncontested King of D&D.

Never go Full Crawford.

Quote from: Theory of Games on October 11, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
All the "I told You so" people are confirmed.

Hasbro just wants funds from the D&D IP.

They benefit from flame wars. The benefit from bad publicity. They benefit from design excellence. Hasbro can have what they want.

Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.

They only feel pain when D&D 5e loses profits.

'Buying'

You're adorable.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2021, 08:12:12 AM

Quote from: Theory of Games on October 11, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.

'Buying'

You're adorable.

Pirate-and-publicize is not much better.

Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and "big damn hero" PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like 'courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged' and 'heroes should be heroic').

Next up for me is artwork (there's a lot to do myself and to figure out which I'll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I'll gladly take the customers they don't want anymore.

Quote from: Chris24601 on October 12, 2021, 10:59:49 AM
Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and "big damn hero" PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like 'courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged' and 'heroes should be heroic').

Next up for me is artwork (there's a lot to do myself and to figure out which I'll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I'll gladly take the customers they don't want anymore.

Sounds interesting!