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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: RPGPundit on October 08, 2021, 04:40:52 PM

Title: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: RPGPundit on October 08, 2021, 04:40:52 PM
As usual, I was exactly RIGHT about the new woke D&D Evolution Edition that WoTC is planning. But in fact, I was off only in that in some ways it's even WORSE than what I'd predicted.


Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 08, 2021, 05:28:11 PM
Well...guess my gaming dollar will go fishing around for old 1e/2e stuff. Maybe some 5e-compatible (everything is convertible if you strip enough guts out) products from OSR dudes.

Already got some Venger and Pundit stuff,  expect to buy more.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: RPGPundit on October 09, 2021, 06:11:14 AM
I appreciate your purchases!
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Chris24601 on October 09, 2021, 08:56:43 AM
The only thing I disagree with in your video is that, because Orcus and Demogorgon are unique individuals, they probably will have a fixed alignments.

Other than that, I think you’re spot on in the direction WotC intends to take “evolved” 5e.

I wonder though… if we could convince them to just make all the demons and devils look like straight white men with Christian motifs would they then label them as “Always Lawful/Chaotic Evil?”
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: hedgehobbit on October 09, 2021, 09:47:02 AM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: HappyDaze on October 09, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?
You can't rush sensitivity readers.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 09, 2021, 10:46:18 AM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?
You can't rush sensitivity readers.
The NYT reported that one anti-whiteness professor expounded that "White culture is obsessed with mechanical time --clock time-- and punishes students who are late"

Being on time or in a hurry to produce things is White Supremacy, Bigots!
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Thorn Drumheller on October 09, 2021, 11:01:15 AM
You can't rush sensitivity readers.

Oh gawds that was my laugh for today. Thanks HappyDaze.

It's so bizarre being in this hobby since the late 70's and seeing how things have changed. I mean change is good IMO otherwise things stagnate. But to see the various "groups" be "in power" over the years is fascinating. I know WotC doesn't care about my demographic, but isn't there something something about standing on the shoulders of those who came before? It's so weird.

I'm glad there are so many good rpgs out there that my hobby dollar can go to. And I like it.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Chris24601 on October 09, 2021, 11:09:35 AM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?
While there are many humorous reasons for the timing; the real reason is so that the new “edition” will coincide with D&D’s 50th Anniversary (I fully expect it to be marketed as D&D50 or 50e rather than 5.5e… going from 5e to 50 is just too easy a marketing gimmick).
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 09, 2021, 12:23:49 PM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?
While there are many humorous reasons for the timing; the real reason is so that the new “edition” will coincide with D&D’s 50th Anniversary (I fully expect it to be marketed as D&D50 or 50e rather than 5.5e… going from 5e to 50 is just too easy a marketing gimmick).
Absolutely 💯.
They're gonna throw a big 50th Anniversary logo of some kind on it all and make it as big of a deal as possible, just to sell Special Edition versions of everything. I expect that even low-tier books (like SCAG or Theros) they don't bother updating will get a 50th Anniversary or "5e Gold" alt cover re-release for $10 more.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on October 09, 2021, 12:50:17 PM
HASBRO as a corporation that makes 100x the revenue that every other game publisher combined on their D&D brand (Almost all of it comes from Licensing the Dragon & icon and branding for MERCHANDISE such as clothing, kitch, and even bullshit like D&D Nerds candy and mints) while producing as little actual real CONTENT as most 3PP and in many cases less than that on a yearly basis.

They have absolutely no incentive to hire more writers or make more content than the glacial pace they've set thus far because they make a mere pittance actually making new content for the game over simply taking a cut of the DMs Guild content creators who do all of the interesting work for them, and just selling the License for the brand to other companies looking to cash in on what D&D has come to represent to the larger market.

The new edition is a chance for them to repackage everything they already made with a year to tweak out and change in order to make the game "more inclusive" and less objectionable to the most hyper sensitive crowds/mobs. They'll end up spending less than 1/4 of what it cost to develop 5e to bring in a new revised edition and basically reprint everything they already made after the editorial push. In other words, HASBRO most likely has taken to the idea that they can sell what is effectively the same game with a "new spirit" to all the same customers they already have sold it to. The new edition should be expected to get wall to wall coverage on every social and traditional media platform known to man, a cost that I guarantee will hit their pocketbook far harder than the actual development and editing/layout costs of making the books ever will.

Mark my words, they also have the opportunity with their digital sales method to ACTUALLY force all subscribers of D&D beyond to stop playing 5e because as I understand it they have no plans WHATSOEVER of continuing the normal 5e (NOT PDF) book access methods through their service once 5.5 drops, this will be marketed as a "free upgrade" to the new edition that is mandatory within 6 months of the CRB/PHB release that cannot be opted out of since they view selling their older games as conflicting with the strategy of marketing a new one.

HASBRO will do everything possible to milk their IP for all it is worth while investing the bare minimum into actually creating content in-house, expect to see more rebranded board games spun with recycled D&D art assets, a newly revised logo that is slightly different that they can sell the License to Nestle, fruit of the loom and CBS for a higher cost, as well as an eventual requirement for GM guiild products to either switch to the new edition or have the products produced as "compatible" with both costing them a double dip on the cut HASBRO takes.

The soul of the game and identity of D&D has been dying ever since it was taken out of the control of people actually involved in the hobby and sold to megacorp.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: HappyDaze on October 09, 2021, 01:02:20 PM
You can't rush sensitivity readers.

Oh gawds that was my laugh for today. Thanks HappyDaze.

It's so bizarre being in this hobby since the late 70's and seeing how things have changed. I mean change is good IMO otherwise things stagnate. But to see the various "groups" be "in power" over the years is fascinating. I know WotC doesn't care about my demographic, but isn't there something something about standing on the shoulders of those who came before? It's so weird.

I'm glad there are so many good rpgs out there that my hobby dollar can go to. And I like it.
Why stand on their shoulders when you can dance on their graves?
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: hedgehobbit on October 09, 2021, 04:12:13 PM
While there are many humorous reasons for the timing; the real reason is so that the new “edition” will coincide with D&D’s 50th Anniversary (I fully expect it to be marketed as D&D50 or 50e rather than 5.5e… going from 5e to 50 is just too easy a marketing gimmick).

I understand the 50th anniversary, but I don't see why they started talking about it already. It is impossible to predict which parts of D&D will be racist next month, let alone two years from now. By then, there will probably be a couple more types of istaphobes that haven't even been thought of yet.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Jaeger on October 09, 2021, 05:58:52 PM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?

You have to read between the lines in their announcement which a lot of people miss:


They've begun work on new versions of the core rulebooks. Recent surveys tie into that.

The recent surveys asked a LOT of questions about Classes, Class abilities, and Subclasses.

And they are going to do more surveys:


...but expect more surveys. More will be said next year.

If the surveys next year continue to ask a lot of questions about Classes, Class abilities, and Subclasses. Then we have less and less reasons to not expect a full 5.5 style revision.

I expect that the game will look visually the same, but that there will be a lot of "small" mechanical changes in the class structures...

They will totally get away with this because unlike 3.0's 3 year run, 5e will have been the longest running WotC edition when 2024 rolls around.

They will absolutely refuse to call it a new edition, revision, or 5.x anything. Ever.

They 50th celebration of D&D will give them a lot of cover in the form of general good will, and positive press for the D&D brand.

The special 50AE D&D not-edition could not have the ground better laid with sugary sweetness to help the people pretend that it isn't totally a 5.5 revised edition with a smile.



...
They have absolutely no incentive to hire more writers or make more content than the glacial pace they've set thus far ...

IMHO, their release schedule is one of the few things that they actually did right.

There is just no need for tons of splat books. But IMHO they did fall short in providing real options for GM who might want to go into domain play etc,.  But that is probably a result of the decisions made with their core books.

Aside from that, while I imagine their MtG setting books sold rather well, IMHO no one really plays those setting very much - they benefit a ton  with collector tie in and the MtG crowd has never mixed with the D&D crowd to the extent that WotC would like. And they never will.

So for me it was not so much about their release pace - it was the types of books that they chose to release...



...
The soul of the game and identity of D&D has been dying ever since it was taken out of the control of people actually involved in the hobby and sold to megacorp.

This has been true since Gygax lost control. For all his business failings, he at least had a personal stake in what the game meant to people. This effect was mitigated a great deal in the Williams era of TSR because a lot of employees who worked under Gygax still had input into the game.

Things just got accelerated with WotCs 3.0, and they are ticking along even faster now that anyone with a real love for TSR D&D is now off of the WotC dev team.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Spinachcat on October 10, 2021, 03:37:21 AM
50e as woke shit that sells phenomenally is a no brainer.

No question that the DM's Guild will be required to adhere to the new edition.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Sellsword on October 10, 2021, 10:45:26 AM
Can't say I am surprised by these changes; in 5e it already felt that they were phasing out alignment since the beginning and I think the tasha source book is what introduced new rules for races and ability scores that will now be the norm.

You would think that they would use this chance to improve upon 5e but nope, instead they will waste time, effort and resources on this crap.

Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: RPGPundit on October 10, 2021, 08:54:35 PM
If all they are doing is wokifying 5e, why will it take them 2 and 1/2 years to do so?

They want that date to mark the 50th Anniversary of D&D. In other words, hype.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 11, 2021, 09:00:24 AM
Pundit has it right. Never ever underestimate hype, even when people are jaded.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: tenbones on October 11, 2021, 11:59:39 AM
Yup.

No amount of hype will bring me back to D&D until the people running the show change. And even then, it'll have to be GOOD.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Pat on October 11, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
It's the 50th anniversary, so wouldn't it make sense to release a bunch of products that celebrate that history? Some new glossy coffee table book on the history of D&D, a new printing of the white box, an update of the silver anniversary collection to a gold collection....
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 11, 2021, 03:48:25 PM
It's the 50th anniversary, so wouldn't it make sense to release a bunch of products that celebrate that history? Some new glossy coffee table book on the history of D&D, a new printing of the white box, an update of the silver anniversary collection to a gold collection....
I know what I'd do, but there's no way WotC would.
Given that it has to be "Backwards-Compatible " with 5e. So either a 5.5 or a 5e.
1. Make a big deal of it being a 50th Anniversary version. (Okay, this part, they will do, with alt covers and all that.)
2. Let the Marketing team go ape shit with random swag. Keychains, backpacks, t-shirts, dice, all that. (This, they will do.)
3. Pull the Dragonborn, Teiflings, Warlocks and casting subclasses of Martial archetypes out of PHB. Add the Cavalier and Scout subclasses.  MM and DMG are fine as-is. Add in whatever monsters and items that have come out since 2014. Big "50th Anniversary Edition!" on the front, even if you change absolutely nothing inside.
4. Put out a 256 page Forgotten Realms setting guide with pull-out map. It's your official setting. Say it's damn name.
Put out a Dragonlance book, Ravenloft setting book, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape books. All under a "D&D Classics Revisited" tag line.
5. Put out all the MtG settings books under a "D&D Expanded Worlds" tag line.
6. Throw a version of the 1e Wilderness Survival Guide and Dungeoneer's Survival Guide together in one book, along with some map making advice, yada yada. Throw the Artificer, Warlock, additional races and subclasses into some sort of PHB 2. Call them "D&D Expanded Options" or whatever.
7. Profit!
8. (Make massive staffing changes, but they won't make the ones I would.)
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Theory of Games on October 11, 2021, 07:00:13 PM
All the "I told You so" people are confirmed.

Hasbro just wants funds from the D&D IP.

They benefit from flame wars. The benefit from bad publicity. They benefit from design excellence. Hasbro can have what they want.

Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.

They only feel pain when D&D 5e loses profits.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Svenhelgrim on October 11, 2021, 08:11:20 PM
5.5 is going to be the biggest flop that Hazards-Of-The-Bro ever experienced for the following reasons:

1. Their target audiences is broke, woke, and will pirate and torrent all of the matereal.  These people want everything for free and have no qualms about stealing something they can’t afford because “Kapitalizum iz evil”.
2. Thry are alienating the older players, calling them “_ists”, and “_phobes”, which will drive us away to seek out better games.
3. The next two years will show reduced sales as no one wants to buy books for a system that will probably be obsolte soon.  Other RPG companies will court D&D players with creative and innovative matereal. They are lean and hungry to take away the profits from the old dinosaur that is Hazards-Of-The Bro. 
4. The writers and artists kinda suck.  The quality of the matereal put out by Hazards-Of-The-Bro has been getting steadily worse since Xanathar’s Guide came out.  The art resembles cartoons and is very corny, not at all remeniscent of the heroic struggles that D&D characters once had to endure.  The adventure plots are hakneyed, and the same monsters reappear in every book.  I haven’t seen a decent trap since Curse Of Strahd.  The riddles and puzzles are uninspiring, and since they are doing away with alignment (mostly), they remove one of the elements that gave impetus to most of the adventures.  It is hard to be a hero in a world without good or evil.  Player characters will just be wandering killers, or students in some mage-school trying to get a date for the prom.  [yawn]


Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: kidkaos2 on October 12, 2021, 03:35:37 AM
50e as woke shit that sells phenomenally is a no brainer.

No question that the DM's Guild will be required to adhere to the new edition.

At some point they are going to wokify it enough that it stops selling phenomenally.  Just like what happened with the comic book industry, the Star Wars franchise, etc.  I've heard it described as up and coming woke people selling executives on the idea that social justice is the hot thing and pointing to twitter as proof, then the company commits to emphasizing social issues over good story and character, and the product flops but the creators justify it by blaming bigots in the fanbase and keep going.  Eventually the whole product line tanks and the executives cancel it as unprofitable.  At no point in this cycle does anybody recognize that it was adding politics that was the problem all along, and then it's too late.  It's dead.

I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released.  Players are already invested in it.  If they overhaul the game, tho, and produce an edition that's woke from the beginning I can see it players not adopting it and the game failing.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: S'mon on October 12, 2021, 03:48:40 AM
I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released. 

It was a bit Woke on release. But not enough to scare the normies. It went Full Retard when Jeremy Crawford became the uncontested King of D&D.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 12, 2021, 06:53:06 AM
I think right now D&D is surviving because 5E wasn't woke at the beginning.  It's coasting along now on the good will it generated when it was first released. 

It was a bit Woke on release. But not enough to scare the normies. It went Full Retard when Jeremy Crawford became the uncontested King of D&D.
Never go Full Crawford.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2021, 08:12:12 AM
All the "I told You so" people are confirmed.

Hasbro just wants funds from the D&D IP.

They benefit from flame wars. The benefit from bad publicity. They benefit from design excellence. Hasbro can have what they want.

Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.

They only feel pain when D&D 5e loses profits.
'Buying'

You're adorable.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Zalman on October 12, 2021, 10:16:32 AM
Because you stupids keep buying the product because you can't shift new gamers to the OSR games.
'Buying'

You're adorable.

Pirate-and-publicize is not much better.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Chris24601 on October 12, 2021, 10:59:49 AM
Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and “big damn hero” PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like ‘courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged’ and ‘heroes should be heroic’).

Next up for me is artwork (there’s a lot to do myself and to figure out which I’ll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I’ll gladly take the customers they don’t want anymore.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: DM_Curt on October 12, 2021, 12:04:15 PM
Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and “big damn hero” PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like ‘courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged’ and ‘heroes should be heroic’).

Next up for me is artwork (there’s a lot to do myself and to figure out which I’ll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I’ll gladly take the customers they don’t want anymore.
Sounds interesting!
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Joey2k on October 12, 2021, 01:35:24 PM
5.5 is going to be the biggest flop that Hazards-Of-The-Bro ever experienced for the following reasons:

1. Their target audiences is broke, woke, and will pirate and torrent all of the matereal.  These people want everything for free and have no qualms about stealing something they can’t afford because “Kapitalizum iz evil”.
2. Thry are alienating the older players, calling them “_ists”, and “_phobes”, which will drive us away to seek out better games.
3. The next two years will show reduced sales as no one wants to buy books for a system that will probably be obsolte soon.  Other RPG companies will court D&D players with creative and innovative matereal. They are lean and hungry to take away the profits from the old dinosaur that is Hazards-Of-The Bro. 
4. The writers and artists kinda suck.  The quality of the matereal put out by Hazards-Of-The-Bro has been getting steadily worse since Xanathar’s Guide came out.  The art resembles cartoons and is very corny, not at all remeniscent of the heroic struggles that D&D characters once had to endure.  The adventure plots are hakneyed, and the same monsters reappear in every book.  I haven’t seen a decent trap since Curse Of Strahd.  The riddles and puzzles are uninspiring, and since they are doing away with alignment (mostly), they remove one of the elements that gave impetus to most of the adventures.  It is hard to be a hero in a world without good or evil.  Player characters will just be wandering killers, or students in some mage-school trying to get a date for the prom.  [yawn]

The silent majority is either oblivious to or unconcerned with the political/social turmoil that takes place on this and other online fora. Most players mindlessly play whatever is the latest and greatest with the most name recognition. I'm befuddled by the number of gamers I've met in real life who, while maybe aware of their existence, have never even looked at a game other than D&D
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 12, 2021, 01:36:10 PM
Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and “big damn hero” PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like ‘courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged’ and ‘heroes should be heroic’).

Next up for me is artwork (there’s a lot to do myself and to figure out which I’ll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I’ll gladly take the customers they don’t want anymore.
Sounds interesting!

From what I've read so far it is, if only I could find a group to give it a test run.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Aglondir on October 12, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
Never go Full Crawford.
Crawford is a white dude playing as a woke dude disguised as a game designer.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Aglondir on October 12, 2021, 01:47:58 PM
Put out a Dragonlance book, Ravenloft setting book, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape books. All under a "D&D Classics Revisited" tag line.

Dragonlance: Novels had pictures of thin, attractive women on the cover. Cancelled.
Ravenloft: Vistani are racist. Cancelled.
Planescape: Uses slang terms like "berk" which we all know really means black people. Cancelled.
Dark Sun: Has slavery in it. Cancelled.
Spelljammer: Someone (who will not be named) hit self-destruct. Totally cancelled.


Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Ghostmaker on October 12, 2021, 02:05:19 PM
Put out a Dragonlance book, Ravenloft setting book, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape books. All under a "D&D Classics Revisited" tag line.

Dragonlance: Novels had pictures of thin, attractive women on the cover. Cancelled.
Ravenloft: Vistani are racist. Cancelled.
Planescape: Uses slang terms like "berk" which we all know really means black people. Cancelled.
Dark Sun: Has slavery in it. Cancelled.
Spelljammer: Someone (who will not be named) hit self-destruct. Totally cancelled.
Hence the big push to shoehorn WotC's MtG settings into it, since they've cancelled everything else...
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Chris24601 on October 12, 2021, 02:32:26 PM
Well, I finished the writing on my non-woke modern-ish design fantasy setting on Saturday, so I should be ideally positioned for those who like the WotC-era unified mechanics and “big damn hero” PCs without the woke politics (its as apolitical as you can get while still embracing ideas like ‘courage, compassion, loyalty, diligence, temprence, justice and wisdom are virtues to be encouraged’ and ‘heroes should be heroic’).

Next up for me is artwork (there’s a lot to do myself and to figure out which I’ll need outside work for) and finding a local or regional printer (support local, international shipping is currently a mess and easier to deal with problems face-to-face are all reasons for this choice).

If WotC wants to go woke, I’ll gladly take the customers they don’t want anymore.
Sounds interesting!

From what I've read so far it is, if only I could find a group to give it a test run.
I’m glad you’re liking it.

If others are interested I’m doing a semi-open beta on the completed material. Shoot me a PM and I’ll get you the links to the drafts.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Banjo Destructo on October 12, 2021, 03:03:30 PM
Put out a Dragonlance book, Ravenloft setting book, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape books. All under a "D&D Classics Revisited" tag line.

Dragonlance: Novels had pictures of thin, attractive women on the cover. Cancelled.
Ravenloft: Vistani are racist. Cancelled.
Planescape: Uses slang terms like "berk" which we all know really means black people. Cancelled.
Dark Sun: Has slavery in it. Cancelled.
Spelljammer: Someone (who will not be named) hit self-destruct. Totally cancelled.

Grayhawk: original setting of one of the creators of D&D, can't possibly keep the setting of that white colonizer
Forgotten Realms: used to be the creation and under the control of a talented and dedicated man, but luckily it has been turned into a gay furry convention where humans are rarely around, a-ok.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Theory of Games on October 12, 2021, 03:04:56 PM
Told you the next version was going to be pure narrative.

Throw away your evil agency-depriving dice and run D&D like a Session-0 agreed-upon LARP.

My PC only dies if agreed upon. Encounters can only challenge PCs but never overwhelm. Pcs can act however they want because Alignment is dead. The gods are beholden to PC behavior.

Anything goes as long as it fits the narrative/storyline.

Welcome to D&D!
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Steven Mitchell on October 12, 2021, 03:09:48 PM
Told you the next version was going to be pure narrative.

Throw away your evil agency-depriving dice and run D&D like a Session-0 agreed-upon LARP.

My PC only dies if agreed upon. Encounters can only challenge PCs but never overwhelm. Pcs can act however they want because Alignment is dead. The gods are beholden to PC behavior.

Anything goes as long as it fits the narrative/storyline.

Welcome to D&D!

Fine, if in some bizarre situation I get stuck having to run one of these beasts (hostage situation?), then I'll make it real easy:

GM:  Everyone have their characters ready to go?
Players:  Yeah!
GM:  Alright, you fight and think your way through numerous obstacles, but persevere. Go you!  Here's some gold, magic items, and juicy XP. The whole adventure only took 3 minutes!  So now you've got plenty of time to talk amongst yourselves about how wonderful you all are.
GM:  Bye!
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Horace on October 12, 2021, 04:04:52 PM
"It's even worse than we imagined."

Keep those words handy. We're going to be using them a lot over the next few years.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: GeekyBugle on October 12, 2021, 07:08:51 PM
You don't want to cause the end of the world do you? HUH BIGOTS!?

https://yourdungeonisracist.blogspot.com/2021/10/if-you-dont-play-d-5e-world-dies.html (https://yourdungeonisracist.blogspot.com/2021/10/if-you-dont-play-d-5e-world-dies.html)
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Jam The MF on October 12, 2021, 11:31:49 PM
It would be nice if they could release a 50th Anniversary D&D product that wasn't loaded with bull shit.  It would be nice if they could devote themselves to releasing the greatest DMG of all time.  A 50th Anniversary Gold Edition DMG full of great resources.

Nope.  Gotta bow to the freak show clowns that want to spit all over D&D.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Pat on October 13, 2021, 07:33:14 AM
Wasn't there a premium version of Deathwatch that was released in an ammo crate?

A premium edition of D&D 50th should be released in a treasure chest.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: PonchoGoblin on October 13, 2021, 11:33:58 AM
Meant to ask in the YouTube comments, but wouldn't this essentially make 5.5e (or I guess evolved, which is funnily similar to them originally calling 5e D&D Next) a glorified story game with a license attached to it? It's funny too, the woke stuff is starting to push away even hardcore 5e fans from what I've seen.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: RPGPundit on October 13, 2021, 06:50:38 PM
Meant to ask in the YouTube comments, but wouldn't this essentially make 5.5e (or I guess evolved, which is funnily similar to them originally calling 5e D&D Next) a glorified story game with a license attached to it? It's funny too, the woke stuff is starting to push away even hardcore 5e fans from what I've seen.

Too soon to tell. It depends on whether or not they meaningfully change the core mechanics; given that they're promising compatibility that seems unlikely. But they could add some kind of "X rule" or something (like, "any player can for any reason at any time declare that an event in play needs to be stopped or did not occur, for their own well-being, and everyone must abide by this and the DM must adjust the situation accordingly") that would effectively reduce the game to a storygame.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Omega on October 14, 2021, 02:21:10 AM
Looking at the new stuff from WOTC thats come out this year.

I am starting to think that they are already soft edition changing 5e. They could keep going that route all the way to 2024 and thered be no need for a new edition because its already there in some odd way.

But this is WOTC and the gang so its probably going to be stupid somehow some way.

Failure is the only option with WOTC. Especially if they somehow succeeded. If it aint broke. Break it.

The other possibility is that at the 11th hour they will reveal the all new "We hate you 5e players" 6th edition. Rake in the free advertising as everyone screams. Wonder why they are again getting their asses kicked in sales when someone keeps 5e alive just like Paizo did.
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: Neoplatonist1 on October 14, 2021, 04:28:07 PM
Why do I have a passing thought that D&D will complete its transformation into a mainstream hobby not through dominating the market, but by having "woke" D&D be made mandatory for pupils in public education?
Title: Re: I Told You So About "D&D Evolution" - But it's Even Worse
Post by: HappyDaze on October 14, 2021, 07:05:35 PM
Why do I have a passing thought that D&D will complete its transformation into a mainstream hobby not through dominating the market, but by having "woke" D&D be made mandatory for pupils in public education?
Your passing thought is as meaningful as passing gas.