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Author Topic: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?  (Read 6878 times)

Thorn Drumheller

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I really wonder what the purpose behind a thread like this is:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/running-list-of-potential-problematic-issues-in-tsr-era-dnd.678461/
I'm not sure other than pc wokeness
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Chris24601

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 12:52:37 PM »
I don’t think they’re quite there yet. By the bottom of the first page we got this comment with more likes than the OP...

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How is this going to generate actual good things happening, versus the destruction or censorship of old material?

I'm actually not a fan of the cheesecake/beefcake for religious and modesty reasons.... but if you want to cancel beefcake and cheesecake, you will have to go back a few hundred years to some of the best artists of all history and start putting clothes on their work. Artists like to show muscles and curves as a way of displaying their mastery of their art, or something like that. It's certainly harder to draw a barbarian (either gender) with 20d6 individual muscles on display than it is a person in featureless plate armor.

Ratman_tf

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 01:10:21 PM »
From the original post on the thread-

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Ok, a disclaimer is going to be needed for this thread. First, this in no way is saying people who played, continue to play, enjoy, or designed/worked on TSR era DnD are bad in any way. It was a product of its time, and people largely did the best they could with what they knew at the time.

This directly contradicts the WOTC disclaimer on rpgnow/drivethrurpg.

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We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

If they were "wrong then", then WOTC are intentionally promoting and profiting off of prejudice.

The purpose of a thread like that is PC Wokeness. They're not nearly as far along as RPG.net, but RPG.net didn't become woke overnight. The pushback the OP is getting (That username sounds familiar...) is nice to see, but give it time. Eventually the place wil descend into social justice hell, just like TBP.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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RandyB

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 01:27:02 PM »
I really wonder what the purpose behind a thread like this is:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/running-list-of-potential-problematic-issues-in-tsr-era-dnd.678461/
I'm not sure other than pc wokeness

Yes. Yes it is.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2021, 02:05:58 PM »
On ENWorld, every time one mod retired and a new one took the spot, it got marginally worse.  Sometimes it was a really thin margin, but there has been a lot of turnover there.  And you don't need much change when you start overtly center-left but think you are center.

Wicked Woodpecker of West

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2021, 02:14:56 PM »
This thread is sort of meh, nevertheless it's nowhere near Big Purple censorship level, so for now it's fine.

Shasarak

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2021, 02:50:59 PM »
I love it how the Wokesters love the E Thot girls but hate the Random Harlot Tables.

Sex Work is Work you bigots!
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pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

S'mon

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2021, 03:11:39 PM »
Sadly the whole (Western) world is getting more like RPG.net. :(

DELETE THIS

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2021, 04:07:27 PM »
Do any of these people actually fucking PLAY RPGs?

Wicked Woodpecker of West

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2021, 04:19:53 PM »
I know quite a lot of SJWs really playing RPG's in Poland.
I played with them (though I think they have not know I'm quite right-wingish) they were generally good roleplayers.

Which should... be not surprising, as this board, and overall all apolitical quasi-libertarian opposition in RPG hobby claims politics races and so on does not matter.
So SJWs can play just as well, at least until you trigger them too much.

TJS

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2021, 04:49:13 PM »
I quit Enworld recently. 

It wasn't because of that - but it is factor.  It's getting worse.

A lot of the problem is that 5e has been out for a long time and there is really little new to say about it.

Most of the userbase there are really just fans - they're not there to create or to fix or have productive discussions which lead to better gaming or anything like that, but just to argue in a fannish way. 

So without anything new to really talk about they basically just tear themselves apart.  Social Justice is just one way.  There was one thread recently about how Halfling society is unrealistic that went on for pages and pages and is a contendor for the stupidest argument I've ever seen on the net.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 04:51:22 PM by TJS »

Ratman_tf

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2021, 05:03:47 PM »
This thread is sort of meh, nevertheless it's nowhere near Big Purple censorship level, so for now it's fine.

That's what people said about Big Purple until it wasn't so fine anymore.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Nosaje

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 05:37:57 PM »
It is sad to see people twist themselves into knots over old material. If it is so upsetting why even look at it or play it.
As for the Harlot table, I learned all sort new words in my young teenage days back in 80s reading the 1e DMG. Thanks Gary! Never used the Harlot table though. Back then I spent 99% of playing time in dungeons slaying all sorts of fiendish creatures and taking their stuff.

Kyle Aaron

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 06:34:41 PM »
Do any of these people actually fucking PLAY RPGs?
Most of the userbase there are really just fans - they're not there to create or to fix or have productive discussions which lead to better gaming or anything like that, but just to argue in a fannish way. 
BNGs. Same as it ever was.

As S John Ross said about the GURPS mailing list, you could tell the difference between the questions asked because of something coming up in play, and the questions asked after just reading the books. Some things which seem like an issue when you're reading the rules actually aren't at the gaming table, and vice versa.

Bill and I talked about this a bit in the livestream yesterday, but basically: for all the blather about the books, what really matters is what happens at the game table. And game tables at local clubs typically represent the demographics of the area. Game tables at people's homes represent the demographics of their own friendship groups. And those groups are usually quite open and friendly and have none of these dramas these guys talk about.

These are dramas you talk about when you don't have a game group.

It's someone said about rpg.net's Tangency: the only roleplaying those guys do is pretending to be gamers.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 06:36:14 PM by Kyle Aaron »

Mistwell

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Re: I'm shaking my head about ENWorld now. Is it becoming more like rpg.net?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2021, 06:50:01 PM »
On ENWorld, every time one mod retired and a new one took the spot, it got marginally worse.  Sometimes it was a really thin margin, but there has been a lot of turnover there.  And you don't need much change when you start overtly center-left but think you are center.

It's been the same three core mods for a decade now. One of them changed their user name from something that had Midget in the name so maybe that's what you're thinking of? They've had mods leave, but few are replaced, and it's mostly the same three guys.