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This weekend, my wife has agreed to let me run D&D 5e for her and my son. She's historically been uninterested in gaming, but seeing my passion for 5e has gotten her mildly interested.

She's played other times but always quit before the end of a session. She loves scifi and fantasy TV and movies, but gaming never grabbed her.

I'll have all day Saturday (from waking up until bedtime- it's a family day) to make her a fan.

I'm good at improvising, but I was hoping maybe the board would have some suggestions on hooking her. I'd like to show her the wonder and magic of the game, and hopefully give her something that makes her want to keep playing. Any ideas for villains, hooks, quests, caveats...ANYTHING will help.

Should I start them at 1st level, or higher to give her a chance to truly be a member of her class?

Here's a bit about her and our family:

-She's a real fan of magic (she loves Charmed and Witches of East End), and will likely be playing a Tiefling Warlock or other arcane caster.

-She grew up in a cult, and hates manipulative religious figures. I might be using this for a villain.

-As a family, we all love both Avatar series on Nickelodeon, though we favor the original.

Thanks in advance.

Starting off at level 1 where you are more vulnerable can be exciting to some. Especially the seeing the character grow and survive from there.

One suggestion. Have some form of recovery magic prepped in the background in case her character gets offed by the first kobold. It doesnt have to be hand holding. The surviving characters may need to haul her back to town. But it should be an option if you are more focused on garnering her attention than driving it off. (unless thats what vexed her the other times.)

Start with something fairly straightforward but challenging. Perhaps the cult has kidnapped someones kid and they plead the PCs to save her. Thus leading to the first encounter with this organization. Possibly no one even knows its a cult. They might assume its slavers or whatever.

From there it can lead to other plots. Get the players enguaged in putting down this cult for whatever reasons they may have.

I would give her something exotic like a Dragonborn, Sorceror using Wild magic.

That way she'll have the breath attack to help out.  Plus the ranged spell attacks and can even hit a bit better with the enhanced strength.

Kit her out with a couple of CLW potions, as you don't want to kill a newbie's character to RPGs, it really turns them off.
Although ensure there's the illusion of danger there to keep the tension high.

I'd say eschew combat altogether. Forget any kind of dungeon exploration.

Women love social stuff so concentrate on that. Put them in a city, maybe new arrivals. Let them explore the city a bit then they see something. A princess drops a small bag by the wheel of her carriage and only the PC notices, something like that. When she gives the bag back to the princess she is thanked and invited to dinner at the mansion tonight.

At the dinner she meets several other noble women and gets into a discussion about the social order of the city, in other words, gossip about the rich. Drop hints about plot points from there. X might be having an affair. Y is wealthy but no one knows how. Z disobeys her mother and trains as a mage. And so on.

Download and printout pictures of the city, make a map of it. Print pictures of the princess and others the PCs meet. Toss in small magic stuff: candles that light with a snap of the fingers, dinner plates that levitate, ice cubes that don't melt. Maybe the butlers are all gnomes.

Remember: gossip, gossip, gossip. Not everything in the kingdom has to be decided by a weapon, test of arms and death. Proving that a Count is boffing the Duchess can be just as devastating.

You get the picture. Expand it from there. But then I know nothing about your wife. She may roll her eyes at such stuff.

Quote from: danskmacabre;786290Kit her out with a couple of CLW potions, as you don't want to kill a newbie's character to RPGs, it really turns them off.
Although ensure there's the illusion of danger there to keep the tension high.

Its not an illusion. I've lost characters with two or more healing potions on them simply because I was taken down so fast I never had a chance to use them. And in the case of the oft mentioned otter, was taken down and then to negative and DOA so even potions were useless.

Everyone has their own views on what amounts to danger.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Quote from: Doughdee222;786292You get the picture. Expand it from there. But then I know nothing about your wife. She may roll her eyes at such stuff.

I doubt she'd like high society and gossip (and my son would be bored), but i agree that social and exploration are the two things to emphasize. Thanks.

Quote from: Omega;786294Its not an illusion. I've lost characters with two or more healing potions on them simply because I was taken down so fast I never had a chance to use them. And in the case of the oft mentioned otter, was taken down and then to negative and DOA so even potions were useless.

Everyone has their own views on what amounts to danger.

Well I mean the illusion of danger in that you could fudge dice rolls so monsters don't hit as often etc..

Quote from: Monster Manuel;786296Thanks for the advice so far.



I doubt she'd like high society and gossip (and my son would be bored), but i agree that social and exploration are the two things to emphasize. Thanks.

Take the social city aspect, add some intrigue, make the relationship between your wife and kid as natural as possible.

Suggest, noble sorcerous  and loyal bodyguard. Noble family killed sorceress fled but bing hunted. This means you can bring in hunters if the action slows and your kid gets bored and you add an external threat and a mystery so you can lever it to increase the pace whenever you need to.

Add some intrigue with a way she has to prove her family's innocence, regain their honor etc .

Whilst fleeing get them involved with some roguish city types, outlaws with a heart of gold types, maybe even a charming trickerster who could provide a little romance and also deliver the in character realisation that their noble life was exceptional and there is a mass of poor folks. This will enable her to see that RPGs aren't just kill things and take their stuff but can be used to explore society, relationships etc but at the same time if the thread gets dull or she isn't interested you can fade it back out really easily and concentrate on the adventure.

Most importantly include a chase scene across the rooftops where the two of them can be real badasses and do cool stuff.

Rather than assume women, or your wife, wants something specific. Why not sit her down and say "Hey, you re trying this again, and I'd like to make it fun. What would you like to see as challenges/enemies/interests in play?"

Quote from: Silverlion;786321Rather than assume women, or your wife, wants something specific. Why not sit her down and say "Hey, you re trying this again, and I'd like to make it fun. What would you like to see as challenges/enemies/interests in play?"

I agree with this. It will help you make an adventure, and shouldn't detract from any mystery or awesomeness.

Quote from: Silverlion;786321Rather than assume women, or your wife, wants something specific. Why not sit her down and say "Hey, you re trying this again, and I'd like to make it fun. What would you like to see as challenges/enemies/interests in play?"

Dangerous move.

it opens you up to the "if you really loved me you would know what sort of adventure/xmas present/colour of hat I would prefer" dilema....

that way madness lies.

Quote from: Silverlion;786321Rather than assume women, or your wife, wants something specific. Why not sit her down and say "Hey, you re trying this again, and I'd like to make it fun. What would you like to see as challenges/enemies/interests in play?"

I've tried this. She doesn't analyze her preferences the way a lot of people in fandom do, and couldn't articulate them.

As for making assumptions based on the fact that she's a woman, I agree. My thoughts regarding social aspects and explorations refer back to the parts of the game that have personally given me the most enjoyment, and which seem to fit her tastes in genre fiction.

I think the trickier things with non-gamers (at least, those not from a videogame background) can be the level of violence. Takes some time to get desensitized so start out with less human adversaries, or at least people or things that are clearly bad.
Some sort of fantasy-movie-esque plot might be a plus, though I'd still avoid railroading - maybe some sort of smallish sandbox (e.g. islands are good) with hooks around for a couple of directions that could have world importance and a few interesting NPCs. Maybe with a magical or mysterious 'exploration' feel if you don't want really full-on social or combat - natural hazards, weird phenomena - perhaps start the PCs as strangers to the place and put it somewhere where any sort of character could be fitted in.

Give her total freedom to create the character she wants. If she's overwhelmed with the choices (God knows I sometimes am), you can have a pregen handy but if it was me I guess I'd rather help her choose and walk her through the process, since you literally have all day.

Other than that, well, just do your thing. The best way to make her at ease (anxiety is a big deal with some newbs) is to be at ease yourself. The best way to impress is doing what you do best. No frills, no attempts to write some epic opera rock fantasy thing. I'd go with something along the lines of Keep On The Borderlands or Village of Hommlet in terms of scope and opponents.

How about a story like this: Start the two characters off in their home town a day before they are scheduled to depart for the big city (perhaps with other NPCs who are childhood friends and acquaintances.) They have to say goodbye to their parents, siblings etc. This could take a while and provides the "social" aspect of the game. (Or start the game a week or so before, the PCs "graduate" from whatever local teacher they have and must move on if they are to improve in their class. They have to buy supplies from townsfolk they have know forever for the trip.)

The PCs join a caravan of merchants headed for the city. A day or so out they are parked in a village resting the horses when a local lord comes in to town with a couple guardsmen. He's in a panic. A horrible menace is approaching the village and due to arrive in a couple hours. Everyone has to mount a defense to save the village and all others in the area (thus the PC's home town is in danger too.) People arm themselves, fences hastily constructed etc. More social stuff as the PCs figure out their position in the defense and attempt to rally the villagers, the caravan merchants, etc. This too can burn several hours of play. (Heck, why not have the menace attack the home town? Thus the PCs are saving their loved ones.)

The menace arrives. It's nature is up to you but I suggest lots of small critters on a rampage. Hundreds of dog sized spiders for example. You can be vague on how many there are and just describe how the wave approaches. Some people flee immediately, others stand and fight valiantly. The village is swamped. The PCs can decide to stand and fight on the front line, maneuver back into the village as they hear screams of help, etc. Lots of people die but after hours of hairy battle the menace is defeated.

The lord congratulates everyone on the victory. The PCs feel good about saving various civilians, thinking up various ways to slaughter groups of the menace, proving their bravery to the lord (maybe saving his life) whatever. Whew! What an ordeal! The area is saved! Now the PCs have new choices to make: continue on to the city, help the lord check the defenses of his mansion, investigate the source of the menace, head back home to warn them of a possible attack, and so on.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;786330I think the trickier things with non-gamers (at least, those not from a videogame background) can be the level of violence. Takes some time to get desensitized so start out with less human adversaries, or at least people or things that are clearly bad.

Giant spiders often work as good initial adversaries, familiar enough, yet strange and terrible and people usually have little remorse in their being killed, or killing them themselves.

Quote from: danskmacabre;786297Well I mean the illusion of danger in that you could fudge dice rolls so monsters don't hit as often etc..

Just give the monsters lower attack bonuses and damage, probably lower hp too. This is very easy to do just by changing out their equipment for humanoids, or saying beasts are young or aged or sick. You shouldn't have to fudge dice in play. For instance, just changing d6s & d8s to d4s makes the game much less swingy without making it feel 'safe'. When I run games for my 7 year old son I typically give him an NPC companion & halve monster hit points (or in 4e Gamma World quarter monster hit points), otherwise run as-written.

Edit: The 5e D&D Starter set adventure is good. Take a look at that if you haven't already, should make a good jumping off point and you can add stuff you like or she likes. I'd recommend that for 2 PCs you reduce monster numbers & stats appropriately.

Think back to every time she has quit a game early and what was going on in the preceding half hour. Don't do that stuff...

Subject to the above, it seems what's ignited her interest is detecting your passion for the game. So, include things that you're passionate about...

And finally, max out the personal dilemmas for her PC. Make her make tough choices.

Personally, I would lay off the non-human PCs too (elves or half-elves might be OK), but that's just me. Big up on weird, unpredictable magic items instead.

I had a similar game happen recently, worth my wife who's tried once or twice before with just me and not been convinced, two other female friends who have never played, and a long time player friend and his first time player wife. The other long time player and I felt some pressure to play the "right" sort of game that would get the new players into it. My solution was to go for a simplified D&D which emphasised social and exploration aspects, and set up interesting inter-party dynamics from the start.... And the ideal game for this is Beyond the Wall. I highly recommend picking it up. Group character creation with class/archetype play-books reminiscent of Earthsea/Prydain fiction make for evocative and rounded characters that are linked together and, in the basic version, grew up in the same village together. They share relationships and back-story. The life path mini game took us half the session and was thoroughly enjoyed by all, giving us plenty of adventure hooks, and the impetus of defending this home village from encroaching dark forces... It felt really organic and tied together. The new players loved it, and one of them did mention how happy she was that it wasn't just all about combat.... I know it's a cliché, but sometimes there's truth to the idea that women are less into that.

So here it goes . . .

I would avoid the Cult aspect completely. May be to personal an experience to enjoy in the game. We game to avoid that sort of thing. Her hate of those figures may be too strong.

Second I would definitely do a city adventure. And for reasons I don't think anyone else is sited. If you are concerned about killing characters then a city provides reasonable outs a dungeon does, not, Medical care and healing are close, the city guard can rush  to aid a character etc. Help that does not seem like hand holding is reasonable close.

Also people understand a city as such, Who has seen, read or experienced a dungeon all that often in comparison. Yes there are examples but compared to life in the big city not many.

It is much more relate-able.

Also character interaction is also something people "get" more so than combat.

I would analyze not only what shows she watches but which episodes she liked.  What part of Charmed did she like, The butt kicking fights, The way magic worked, The depth of world building with the light and dark side (Which now expends what I know about charmed), the family aspect, the save your sister parts, what?

With shows like that what part does she like since they actually have several facets.

I understand the asking her part, My wife can't pin down concepts like that either. You will have to bet on your own observations.

Don't be afraid of Cliche either, Its not Cliche the first time you play through it and experience it :)

Basic psychology -- don't ask open-ended questions. When you say 'what do you like?' people's brains have a habit of just shutting down. 'Uuuh. uh. uuuuuh.'

It's better to give _closed_ questions -- offer a small selection, and go from there. This is one reason a lot of 5e design is fucking genius -- it gives a variety of flavorful options to choose from, and those options easily suggest lots of variations and tweaks if you so choose.

So, instead, give a few themes:
* You are on the run in the aftermath of a massive battle. Wreckage of cities lies all around you, while things howl in the distance.
* You have crossed the wrong person. Now, you'd better gather some good dirt on your rivals in the city, or things are going to get rather uncomfortable around here.
* The lost tomb of Tenebril is around here... somewhere. You'll need to talk to the locals, uncover clues (sometimes literally), and perhaps you can be the finder of lost secrets!

I'd also encourage her to select personality trait/ideal/bond/flaw from her background instead of randomizing it -- that might give you a large clue as to what she is interested in doing.

Like Will said, feed her some suggestions, throw some hooks her way and see what she hits on.

Think about the sort of Sci Fi and Fantasy she is into and write a quick list of common themes and setting elements. I would also second having her create her character ahead of time and hand pick her trait/flaw/bond.

For your first adventure with them I would give them an obvious hook with a fairly straight forward adventure, just give them a bit of room to go off the rails and see what they do.

I typically start people with no gaming experience with an opening adventure that is short but tightly focused. I try to structure it so that it will introduce game and setting elements to them but give them ideas about what they may want to do later. A sort of intro to the sandbox so to speak.

I tend to agree with the idea of making it a city-based adventure (an old saying in my group is that the city IS the adventure). Maybe a caper, something involving a McGuffin that your wife can get hooked on, with enough manly derring-do that your kiddo can get into the swing of things, as it were.

Another thought:
Do you know how you do non-lethal damage in 5e?
'Your target is at 0 hp. Knocked out or dead?' "Knocked out."
That's it.

There's no inherent reason why enemies might not 'down' PCs rather than killing them outright, and you will not disrupt 'balance' if you simply have PCs pass out due to injuries rather than facing death.

Start with this thread OP  (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=30610)posted by Daztur.

Quote from: Silverlion;786321Rather than assume women, or your wife, wants something specific. Why not sit her down and say "Hey, you re trying this again, and I'd like to make it fun. What would you like to see as challenges/enemies/interests in play?"

+1. When in doubt, ask

So, how did the game go?

Sorry for the delay, this week's been rough.

So my wife and son played this weekend. We spent a long time making characters so we didn't have much time to play on Saturday. My wife offered to play again on Sunday.

The two characters are Annaka, a Tiefling Barbarian (who will multiclass as a Warlock), she rebelled against bonds, traits, and other roleplaying elements, but I was able to get out of her that she and the other character, Dragos, were childhood friends.

She also decided that she was on the run from a church- on her own, so fears regarding that were unfounded. I created a church called "The White Flame" to serve as a main enemy for this campaign.

I'm doing my best to pretend that she's playing the character when she does this, but every time an NPC talks, she mocks him or her.  She's really just not into it. She thinks the whole process of roleplaying is ridiculous.

My son's character, Dragos the Dragonborn, is a Way of the Elements Monk, and he's really, really into it. He's got a voice for his character and everything. Just a note, my son's 15, but he's got autism, so it's nice to see him get openly passionate about something other than the things he's always been passionate about.

He decided that even though his group of Dragonborn are descended from chromatic dragons, they were slaves, and seek out good dragons to serve in order to redeem his people. This told me that they were rare in the setting, and it has become his main quest. The White Flame is involved in their disappearance.

The characters had recently had a run-in with the White Flame, and escaped into a lost city. The world was coming out of a dark age, and so cities like this are just lying empty and largely unlooted. They took refuge from the rain in a library, which it turned out had a zombie and the ghost of the head librarian in it. The ghost was/is harmless unless they abuse the books, but the zombie attacked on sight. I don't think they used a single traditional weapon in the fight, starting a fire on some shelving material they had gathered (they didn't harm the books), and trying to wrestle it into the fire. Eventually, Dragos ripped the zombie in half with a creatively described unarmed attack.

They didn't grab a hook I laid out with the librarian, but they decided they needed to talk to him when he manifested the next night about something unrelated. I might be able to give it to them again.
The next day they decided to loot the city museum. The failed the door's riddle (magic mouth), and the automated system made them pay an entry fee. Annaka doesn't trust the mouth, and we left it up in the air whether they'd be going in.  

The adventure went slowly, as they had to discover things like alternating watches while they slept and spent a lot of time talking these things out. I was fine with this, and tried to feed the ambiance and reinforce the spooky tone of the first game.

I'd be content to continue the game with just my son, but my wife insists on playing. I suppose this could be good news, in that I have more time to get her to engage.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Very interested to hear the update! Please keep them coming!

I can't help but wonder whether maybe your wife might actually get a lot out of the game, not necessarily on its own merits, but from watching you and your son enjoying it, especially with your son being on the autistic spectrum as you describe. I've met a good few roleplayers (maybe 6?) who I've positively known to have some form of autism or Asperger's syndrome (mostly in Vampire: The Requiem MET-LARP games), and some of them have been amazing roleplayers and really into the game. I did have an awkward moment once when my character told a young woman's character to bite another female character (she was a vampire after all, and the other character was human), and I didn't realise that the player in question had quite pronounced autism, and she actually bit the other player, then got terribly and unnecessarily embarrassed about it when she realised she wasn't meant to actually draw blood in the real world... but I guess people can be at very, very different places on the autistic spectrum.

You might find that as you carry on with the game and your wife gets more out of seeing how you and your son enjoy it, she may do more of what you consider to be serious roleplay. Give her the benefit of the doubt though - maybe her character is just a smart-ass. Here's a random idea. Get the PCs in conversation with a truly terrifying and bad-tempered NPC, someone they could never kill in a straight fight. Signpost the encounter from way off in the distance. Make sure they've heard the NPC's reputation beforehand, seen the dead body of the servant who spoke out of turn, etc. Then you might see a different side to her character. Or she might lose a limb :-)

Just a thought.