I actually really like Savage Worlds.

Learn one system, multiple settings to play is a huge bonus.  I really like how the addition of the adventure cards and trading of them has made a cooperative mechanic that adds to the game. I like the way the game handles tactical combat. I love the chase rules. I like the Initiative mechanic, it tends to be faster than rolling and tallying to me.

I don't like the Shaken condition since it can really take you out of many combats (That's why Combat Reflexes is always on my must have edge list). I don't like the weird HP mechanic (essentially you have 4 HP = 1 Wound after you apply toughness/armor, making extras have HP = 4 and Wild Cards HP = 16). I don't like the weird bennie = extra HP mechanic with soaking. I don't like the Incapacitation rules.

Overall though, it runs a lot smoother combat than either DnD 3.x or Earthdawn, so I gotta give it that. I really like the Adventure Cards, they make things a lot more cooperative and I gotta emphasize that again. The bennie system is a tack on though. It simply allows the game to function properly. Realize at d12+d6 (the maximum for most, such as humans), the potential for failure is still 12.5% (3/12 failure +3/6 failure = 9/72 fail = .125). So even at the max, the chance for failure is still very high as long as difficulty is 4 (and even worse for high parries). Compare that to high powered DnD and PF characters that can only fail on a 1 (5% fail chance) and you'll see the difference.

But even though it has a lot of flaws, it still runs tactical combat the smoothest I have ever experienced thus far and character creation is about 15 minutes and even less for Game Master Characters. The real strength of SW is that game prep becomes very easy as long as you have a plot point campaign and savage tales with easy to create GMCs. And really that is a huge point in its favor (as a long time Earthdawn Game Master I can attest to this fact. Making an NPC in my game is standard of 5 minutes +5 per Circle, so a Fifth Circle character might be 30 minutes). Multiple PPCs and settings allow us to go from 50 Fathoms to Deadlands to Shaintar and all understand the basic system despite it being a different setting.

Quote from: jibbajibba;666330I was looking for situations where worse was actualy better and they don't occur its just he growth curve isn't linear and its not all ways intuitive.

You did not look very hard.

Chance of rolling a 6 on exploding d4 with wild Dice 32%
Chance of rolling a 6 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 31%

Chance of rolling a 8 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 25%
Chance of rolling a 8 on exploding d8 with wild Dice 25%

Chance of rolling a 10 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 18%
Chance of rolling a 10 on exploding d8 with wild Dice 18%

Chance of rolling a 12 on exploding d10 with wild Dice 12%
Chance of rolling a 12 on exploding d12 with wild Dice 11%

Quote from: jadrax;666369You did not look very hard.

Chance of rolling a 6 on exploding d4 with wild Dice 32%
Chance of rolling a 6 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 31%

Chance of rolling a 8 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 25%
Chance of rolling a 8 on exploding d8 with wild Dice 25%

Chance of rolling a 10 on exploding d6 with wild Dice 18%
Chance of rolling a 10 on exploding d8 with wild Dice 18%

Chance of rolling a 12 on exploding d10 with wild Dice 12%
Chance of rolling a 12 on exploding d12 with wild Dice 11%

Check your maths mate......

6+ on an exploding d4 is 0.25 x 0.5 = 12.5%
6+ on exploding d6 is 0.166666 = 16.5%

Thus chance of getting 6+ on d4+d6 = 29%
chance of getting 6+ on d6+d6 = 33%

I will let you do the rest.....

Quote from: jibbajibba;666373Check your maths mate......

6+ on an exploding d4 is 0.25 x 0.5 = 12.5%
6+ on exploding d6 is 0.166666 = 16.5%

Thus chance of getting 6+ on d4+d6 = 29%
chance of getting 6+ on d6+d6 = 33%

I will let you do the rest.....

He's counting the Wild Die in there too.  I think that's what makes the math go hooey.

Quote from: jadrax;666202If you want to run 'My Little Pony crossed with Vampires with Exalted' which seems to be 99% of games on TBP, your choices are pretty much Savage Worlds or GURPS.

Haha, tru dat.

And while I'm a GURPS fan, I gotta say, SW is very rather smaller/lighter/simpler.

Quote from: CRKrueger;666376He's counting the Wild Die in there too.  I think that's what makes the math go hooey.

Yeah me too that is the d6 part after the d4

just sums not brain surgery.

Quote from: jibbajibba;666373Check your maths mate......

6+ on an exploding d4 is 0.25 x 0.5 = 12.5%
6+ on exploding d6 is 0.166666 = 16.5%

Thus chance of getting 6+ on d4+d6 = 29%
chance of getting 6+ on d6+d6 = 33%

I will let you do the rest.....

6+ on an exploding d4 is a roll of a 4 plus the roll of a 2+.
6+ on an exploding d4 is a 0.25 X 0.75...

I will let you do the rest.

Or in fact; Graphs!

The maths do go a bit wonky in Savage Worlds, but it's not as bad as it may appear from looking at graphs (and certainly no worse than oWoD's Botch probabilities). Those graphs jadrax linked to do not include the Wild Die in the equation, by the way, but I am sure that in a graph that takes the Wild Die into account the wonkiness will be equally apparent.

That said, this doesn't really bother me personally. I'm not a fanboy but I also don't *mind* it, as I enjoy some of the settings (Solomon Kane, Rippers) and can use the rulebook and supplements (Horror Companion) for adding and adjusting stuff if I want to.

I'm not sure if the card-based initiative will work for us. If it doesn't I'll just dump it and use some other method.

The miniature scale default stats are somewhat annoying.

Overall all the mentioned complaints are probably valid to some extent but they don't bother me as I don't expect SW to be anything that it isn't. I do think the system was somewhat hyped and overrated as a generically usable rules set.

I imagine it will take some effort for new players to grasp the mechanical effects of some of the edges and hindrances.

I like it when I want lots of fights and minis and I want a 'game' with lots of dice and cards and skirmishes. It took me a while to 'get' shaken, but when I did I recognised it from wargaming and was cool.

I don't like it when I want low powered gritty, or lots of scene chewing ham acting roleplaying, or when minis are the lst thing I want.

It's one of my top 3 go-to games. In fact, I've not gone to it enuff recently, and I read and loved Savage Mars last week..

Quote from: 1989;665951I don't like Savage Worlds because I heard that it is favourable towards miniatures.

You rolled well on the rumour table then.

Quote from: mcbobbo;666169I also chafe at some of their fans.  Things like 'never use this system for D&D' just make me want to do it more.

Oh it's so good for an old skool dungeon romp.


I ran this for my grandkids some weeks back, they loved it. #2 is full on dungeon:

http://goo.gl/g17e9
http://goo.gl/mrAZo

[Only if you like SW, of course..]

I'm apathetic about Savage Worlds.  When I tried it, I didn't hate it, but it didn't seem like anything special.  Some things annoyed me (the mascot, the way the rules were written, et cetera), but not so much that I couldn't overlook them if I liked the rest of the game.  I tried to like it, but the bottom line is that other games did a better job of giving my what I was looking for; Savage Worlds just didn't quite click, for me.

I cannot stand SW. It tends to devolve into a roll fest. Roll, miss. Roll, hit, do minimal damage. Roll, explode, kill a wildcard in 1 hit. Rinse, repeat. No thanks. I'll take hit points any time.

BUT, other than the above anecdote of wild luck, the dice rolling is a blast. And it's very easy to ignore the miniature-centric rules. Making characters is quick and easy. Though the ways attributes affect skills is horrible.

All told, the game sucks. But with a little TLC it just might be awesome.

Could be asked as "Why did I migrate from Savage Worlds to the greener pastures of D6, stopping by the wayside to nibble a little Fate and Fudge?"

What I liked and look for elsewhere:  Benny like tokens to spend for re-rolls or additional bonuses to help when a roll is botched or just missed.  I even liked the initiative, but do not feel the need to bring the cards along.  Quick to run off the cuff.  The exploding dice mechanic.  The awesome community.

What chased me away:  The seemingly darkening trend of all the settings aside from Slipstream.  The one shot kill of a favorite PC or set of PCs.  The exploding dice mechanic.  The constant stream of must have books that I could not afford.

I generally like Savage Worlds as well, with some caveats.  

- As many others have commented, I don't like the Shaken condition especially and some other features of damage.  
- I'm not especially fond of exploding die rolls.  The probabilities are wonky, but more importantly you just get too many improbable results.  It seems like it is intended to make things feel more cinematic - but it feels more wacky than cinematic to me.  

I'm fine with the card-based initiative, and I think other than those flaws the combat system works pretty well.