Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1013361The gameplay of any computer game is marginal at best compared to playing live with humans.  This goes at least double for RPGs; the best session of any computer RPG is barely up to a mediocre face to face game.

And it has harmed tabletop games.  The only advantages of computer games are convenience and the art budget; the instant gratification aspect of them has destroyed patience.

This.. doesn't make sense. Computer and tabletop RPGs are different forms of entertainment. And if you think computer RPGs are about "instant gratification", then you never played things like Dark Souls series, or the Stalker series, for example.

About the OP question, the only tech I see effecting the hobby is online gaming (through software like Roll20, Discord, etc), and even so in a peripheral way. Actual face to face roleplaying will always exist, and no technology will change that.

Quote from: Telarus;1013423My son plays in a D20 home-brew RPG multi-GM 35+ player campaign over the internet....


They use a Minecraft server to auto generate and then sculpt their world (GMs+a subset of the players). All combat/conflict that is not with Minecraft generated monsters is RPG-rules based and done in chat, but all resource gathering and thus arms/armor making is Minecraft-game-world based using various plugins for magic, etc (dig up that iron, cut down those trees, build those sheep farms, enchant the tunic, etc).

He has at various times played the Vampire King's personal surgeon, the right hand to the Pirate Queen, tribal leader to a band of berserkers on the outskirts of the civilized land, and the most powerful fae blacksmith in 12 kingdoms. Starting from scratch each time & earning various skill packs from the RPG rules (some of which get implemented as Minecraft plugin mechanics) by doing what was required in the Narrative _and_ manipulating the Minecraft world to match.

I think my favorite was the Viking Longboat he actually built in this tiny slice of his town radius on the coastline where "free building" was still allowed (a Minecraft program limitation to avoid new players becoming griefers and wreaking the "wild" environments), in a secret hidden cove that had a view to the harbor. He could see when other captains were at dock, hide moving actual Minecraft items needed to build the boat to chests hidden in the area, and build the damn thing over a week (He needed my help lying out the keel line and placing the keelson block and mast). Then he gave it to the Pirate Queen as a gift and was on his way to becoming the "right hand".

Our kids are already doing this with the tools they have available. I was kinda shocked at how close to the Westmarches style he described it as.. each "town" has a handful of player characters, and a GM or two, and GMs would arbitrate whenever two or more "town" factions got into conflict over something (land, resources, etc).

Fascinating! :eek:

Quote from: Xanther;1015163Well said.   Tabletop RPGs seem to be hip again though in college, spent some time discussing them with my girlfriends college age son.  Thinking the younger generation has tired a bit of only twitch reflex gaming.  Maybe like we balanced the Arcade with D&D.

I think that a big part of this is the success of 5e. But also, an outcropping of the earlier revival of board gaming.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1014642Meaning that I should correct my previous statement and say that basically no amount of technology will change RPGs.

Reminds me of how Paizo thought they could just slap tech bits onto their Pathfinder and change the RPG to something that's not still Pathfinder.

Quote from: Xanther;1015163Well said.   Tabletop RPGs seem to be hip again though in college, spent some time discussing them with my girlfriends college age son.  Thinking the younger generation has tired a bit of only twitch reflex gaming.  Maybe like we balanced the Arcade with D&D.

Well, the thing about the gaming arcade was that it was expensive. Getting five or ten bucks and blowing it in the arcade on Pinball machines, Pacman, Galaga, Defender, Centipede, Missile Command, Donkey Kong, Frogger, Joust, Tempest, Asteroid, Ikari Warrior, and my personal favorite SpaceWar! and Star Control was an easy matter, and ten bucks would last just an hour or two at the arcade.

RPGs were way less expensive, $10 would get you a copy of D&D and $35 would get you all three 1eAD&D core books.

Even after hundreds of hours of practice I would still spend $2-3 a day playing Galaga or Space Invaders.

So it was a simple matter of cost. What we got using our imaginations was a virtually limitless amount of play time.

Quote from: Itachi;1015261This.. doesn't make sense. Computer and tabletop RPGs are different forms of entertainment. And if you think computer RPGs are about "instant gratification", then you never played things like Dark Souls series, or the Stalker series, for example.

In recent years Survival Games, Minecraft, and other computers featuring wide open play and sandboxes have gotten popular. A lot of the kids I talk to at scouting better relate to tabletop RPGs, in part, because of these game. I think there a intersection of factors that tabletop RPGs are benefiting from.

Quote from: Itachi;1015261This.. doesn't make sense. Computer and tabletop RPGs are different forms of entertainment. And if you think computer RPGs are about "instant gratification", then you never played things like Dark Souls series, or the Stalker series, for example.

Actually Gronan is right. PC games claiming to be RPGs give the player an instant gratification by being there now. No need to get a GM. No need to wait for your turn while other players go. Combats tend to be faster. the player and their PC tend to be centerstage all the way. And most of all less thinking is required as theres no actual role playing. Just interaction selections, if even that. Most of your attention tends to be on strategy, grinding, and inventory management.

And alot of PC games are designed to be completed in 24 hours or less. Thats about 6 four hour sessions. Others obviously can stretch out far far longer. But few approach the lengths many real RPG sessions can go.

On the good side it seems that more and more PC games are going for really long gameplay after what seemed a span when the push was for shorter games.

Quote from: estar;1015597In recent years Survival Games, Minecraft, and other computers featuring wide open play and sandboxes have gotten popular. A lot of the kids I talk to at scouting better relate to tabletop RPGs, in part, because of these game. I think there a intersection of factors that tabletop RPGs are benefiting from.

Um... people were scouting and strategizing just fine in RPGs well before PC games even came about. PC games are not benefiting RPGs. There is simply the occasional overlap of approaches. Or more often people discovering something thats been around all along in an RPG but is only recently really emerging in PC games. Before 2000 there were the occasional moments. But not like there are now.

Quote from: vikeen;1012960Hello, everyone. I've been thinking about how about the future roleplaying games lately. Primarily, how will technology such as artificial intelligence, augmented reality, or virtual reality alter the roleplaying experience as we know it?

Here are some of my initial thoughts:

* Knowledge and social learning will increase as people become more connected with technology
* Augmented reality will replace miniatures and we could see battle scenes interacted as a cinematic experience
* Verbal storytelling won't go away, but it will be exponentially enhanced by technology
* GM demand will continue to increase

How do you see the industry changing over the next decade or two?

I'm currently working with AR, I think it has a long way to go before it can replace physical miniatures. The tech is in it's infancy.

The most technology has affected RPG is the ability to make decent to really great resources on a desktop computer. Mapping software, background music, handouts, that kind of stuff.

Personally, I use table top games (RPGs and wargames) to geta away from tech and interact with people in person. If I want to use my computer, I'll play a game designed for it, like an MMORPG.

This ancient old gamer is using a lot of technology in the game room, but to get people playing rather then anything else. Hybrid box in the video production rack for the You Tube channel, Polycomm for on-the-road gaming, and a new PC (feeding the 40" plasma screen) in the game room to connect to the Internet for video teleconferencing. The Macs already feed the pictures and maps to the room. All of it brings people in, anywhere they have access to phone service or the Internet.

Quote from: Omega;1015603Actually Gronan is right. PC games claiming to be RPGs give the player an instant gratification by being there now. No need to get a GM. No need to wait for your turn while other players go. Combats tend to be faster. the player and their PC tend to be centerstage all the way. And most of all less thinking is required as theres no actual role playing. Just interaction selections, if even that. Most of your attention tends to be on strategy, grinding, and inventory management.

And alot of PC games are designed to be completed in 24 hours or less. Thats about 6 four hour sessions. Others obviously can stretch out far far longer. But few approach the lengths many real RPG sessions can go.

On the good side it seems that more and more PC games are going for really long gameplay after what seemed a span when the push was for shorter games.

You switch from discussing CRPGs to PC games in general. Lots of classic and modern CRPGs are made for very long (sometimes more than 100+ hours) and involved play beyond just fighting, builds and resources: Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Divinity, Pillars of Eternity and more.

Of course these still no where near the flexibility of a TTRPG but they are not as limited as you suggest.

Quote from: Omega;1015605Um... people were scouting and strategizing just fine in RPGs well before PC games even came about. PC games are not benefiting RPGs.

And how this relevant to how a 13 years relates to tabletop RPGs? Unless you have your observation of a group around 20 11 to 16 years old like I have through scouting.

Of course when are talking about young teenagers they "rediscover" shit. But having worked with youths since the mid 90s what they choose to follow up on differs from generation to generation. The current generation is a lot more proactive creatively as reflected by their interest in games like minecraft. They don't seems as entralled by the story driven AAA titles of a decade ago.

Quote from: VorosYou switch from discussing CRPGs to PC games in general. Lots of classic and modern CRPGs are made for very long (sometimes more than 100+ hours) and involved play beyond just fighting, builds and resources: Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Divinity, Pillars of Eternity and more.

Of course these still no where near the flexibility of a TTRPG but they are not as limited as you suggest.

Yeah, Omega is so full of crap that I'm unsure if he really has played any computer games (or CRPGs) at all. Anyone who played classic CRPGs like Baldurs Gate 2, Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, Planescape Torment or Deus Ex knows everything he says is bullshit, because these games DO allow for in-character roleplaying (AKA taking personal decisions and seeing the consequences ripples in the setting around), and take much longer than a single session of tabletop RPGs. For example, the cited ones could take between 20h to 40h to finish. And some of those have little or optional combat, which means you take most of those 40h just roleplaying your character.

Now, if you consider roleplaying to be "making funny voices and gestures", then sure, the electronic medium don't allow that, but then I rarely see that happen in actual tables.

Quote from: Itachi;1015747Yeah, Omega is so full of crap that I'm unsure if he really has played any computer games (or CRPGs) at all. Anyone who played classic CRPGs like Baldurs Gate 2, Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, Planescape Torment or Deus Ex knows everything he says is bullshit, because these games DO allow for in-character roleplaying (AKA taking personal decisions and seeing the consequences ripples in the setting around), and take much longer than a single session of tabletop RPGs. For example, the cited ones could take between 20h to 40h to finish. And some of those have little or optional combat, which means you take most of those 40h just roleplaying your character.

I'm glad it isn't me who had to react and reply to Omega this harshly. BG alone was for me a hundred hours in the game, made me even interested in the pnp form of Forgotten Realms setting to begin with. Fallout 1/2 were why we got three new players into pnp who then went on to play games like Shadowrun and V:TM, people tend to bash Alpha Protocol but it was great as far actions/consequences are considered. Many PC RPGs include construction/faction mechanics today (having a castle or other base you can improve) and even early turn-based strategy games have strong RPG elements, like Jagged Alliance 2 where in the setting of Arulco you could send various fun messages to your main enemy or prepare defense forces/guards for settlements in a Fallout-like visual environment where your characters can then walk around and see how those guards are at the gates or top of buildings/walls.

Let me also give a honorable mention to forgotten gems like Blue Byte's Albion or Septerra Core (although this is more linear).

I really doubt that computer games and technology won't have any kind of beneficial effect on RPGs because that already happened. While I don't consider MMO-s a good example of meshing (I really disliked the MMO-ish 4th Edition of D&D), however the already mentioned persistent worlds/servers for Neverwinter Nights 1 are a good example of how a virtual world can be built and modified depending on what adventures happen, what actions playes take. The next big step will be when the visual, virtual setting can properly react to changes on its own, something I detailed in one of the first comments of mine in this thread.

Joriandrake, a friend of mine keeps telling me to try Alpha Protocol because of the choice & consequence factor. I will lookout for it. Have you tried Fallout New Vegas? He says it's very good too.

Not exactly related to role playing, but I find what STALKER do with its environment AI very interesting. It's entities (NPCs, fauna, factions, etc) have necessities and goals, and they wonder the map pursuing them in emergent/non-scripted way, so at anytime of the day you can find a lone stalker out there looking for artifacts while being ambushed by a hungry snork, while a couple bandits prowl nearby waiting for loot. It's all dynamical/randomical.