Quote from: rawma;1117522The original poster listed decisions he would allow the players to make; some replies asserted that, essentially, the GM can make any and all decisions about his game, but apparently not the decision to let players make decisions.

I don't think anyone worded it quite that way. Granted, the posts were quite adversarial, but most also provided specific input regarding to the pitfalls of letting players into that kind of decision making process, which was more to the actual point of their posts, rather than "GMs should make ALL decisions--except for deciding to let players make decisions".

And they're kinda right, since letting players into the campaign planning process can derail the process entirely (something I've experienced before when giving players too much rope on deciding what to play--which usually leads ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE) or lead to playing something you don't want to GM long-term. Though, there are some exceptions, such as creating collaborative settings, as was brought up at some point, and its even good to get a feel for what players want, but that doesn't always workout or produce the best results, and its OK/valid to point that out.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1117544I don't think anyone worded it quite that way. Granted, the posts were quite adversarial, but most also provided specific input regarding to the pitfalls of letting players into that kind of decision making process, which was more to the actual point of their posts, rather than "GMs should make ALL decisions--except for deciding to let players make decisions".

Not seeing what you describe in these two posts:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1116522Are you getting paid? You don't sound like their GM. You sound like their employee.

Might as well ask them what individual meals you should prepare them and how they like their foot rubs.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1116525That's why you're a DM, not a player.

In other news, coaches make terrible athletes, and teachers make terrible students.


No. You are the DM. You wear the Viking Hat. Players are your bitches.

I'd agree with that as a player. A new GM  should ask for some ideas and some absolute no go areas but make some outline that sounds interesting from the general culture of the group. With that outline  on the table, then the players can make some suggestions for adjustMents. Best to make the outline rather limited- make something to practice witb rather than a masterpiece.

Quote from: rawma;1117562Not seeing what you describe in these two posts:

They don't quite word it the way you imply either (although they might be interpreted that way, but they also hint at other reasons for objecting) and there were other post in the thread, including from one of those posters, that did go into those types of details:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1116527Not in the slightest.

If you are getting paid, then it makes sense the players get to dictate whatever they're paying for. But if you're doing all the GM heavy lifting for free and on your own time, then run what you want to run and the players choice is whether or not they want to play.

In general, I find most players don't know what they want, but even if the players know what they want, there's zero guarantee the whole table is going to agree on all your questions.  What's your plan for when everybody answers the questions differently?

My plan for new campaigns is very simple. I tell everybody what I'm excited about running. At best, I might give two choices for the campaign and I'll cast the deciding vote because I'm doing the work of the GM.

There's just too much work in GMing for any campaign that doesn't light your fire. For a campaign to work, the GM has to have the most passion for the setting because the GM has the burden of prep and creation. Prep takes hours of your free time and for those hours to feel well spent, the prep has to be fun for you.

Players just show up and play. The GM has to give up non-game free time to make the game time fun for everyone. Thus, the importance of the GM making the key decisions about the campaign.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1117622They don't quite word it the way you imply either (although they might be interpreted that way, but they also hint at other reasons for objecting) and there were other post in the thread, including from one of those posters, that did go into those types of details:

I think mine is a more reasonable reading of the posts I quoted.